Archive for the ‘It’s Supernatural’ tag
SID: I have Joan Gieson here and many of you might recognize her. If you’ve ever seen Benny Hinn on television and you’ve seen a woman with a microphone and she says, “Pastor Benny, this person has just been healed of this!” That’s Joan Gieson. But there’s something you don’t know. She is affectionately called the Miracle Woman. She walks around and sees the presence of God on someone and knows a miracle is ready to take place. Joan, it’s hard to believe, but there was a point, you have two small children, you’re married and all of a sudden you’re blind and all of a sudden the doctors say you’re not going to live, you’re going to die. Tell me about that time.
JOAN G: That makes me cry when you even say that, and it’s been so long ago. We got married, an Italian with a big wedding. It was a perfect wedding and it was a little bit later that I conceived of our first child, and he was born and he was beautiful. We named him Michael and he was the apple of our eye, and he was good, and he grew up a little bit. He was about two years old and one day I stooped over to pick up something he had dropped and when I straightened back up I couldn’t see. I had gone blind. Well literally it scared the bajiggers out of me.
SID: I’m sure.
JOAN G: Within the next two weeks I saw probably 15 doctors and they found hemorrhages behind both eyes and the optic nerve was swollen into the brain. And they didn’t know what the cause was, what would happen, how it would work, but the rest of my body is deteriorating while all that is happening. One day I am a productive wife and a mother and the next day I can’t see and can’t do the housework. Four years it went like that. Four years and now it was time for Michael to go to school. First day in school he helped me on the bus and I sat outside the room of the school, the room that he went in, in the hall. The teacher came out in the room that Michael was in and said, “Joan, Michael is sick. You’re going to have to take him home.” I said, “Judy, I don’t see. I don’t drive. I can’t do that.” And with that the lady that I had seen in my spirit was at my side and said, “I heard what you said. I’ll be glad to take you home.” On the way home that lady led me to Jesus and it was the first time.
SID: You get born again and you only know the term because she uses it.
JOAN G: That’s exactly right.
SID: And you tell your husband. He thinks you’re a little, I’ll use a Hebrew word even though you’re Italian, he thinks you’re a bisha meshuga, a little crazy.
JOAN G: In Italian it’s basa.
SID: Same thing. Okay. And you heard a voice. What did that voice say on the radio?
JOAN G: Well that was a few days later. I’m sitting at the table and I’m waiting for my Michael to come home on the bus. And all of a sudden I hear this voice say, “Hello there. Have you been waiting for me?” Well that wasn’t a Lutheran voice. It scared the bajiggers out of me. I quickly turned the radio off. Second day I heard the same voice: “Hello there.” Boy, I turned that thing off. And the third day I didn’t hear that. I heard a woman say, “I was so ill the doctors said I was going to die and all I did was lift my hands and God healed me in that service.” Well I listened until the program. It said, “This is coming to you from the Kathryn Kuhlman Foundation in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I called Frank and I said, “Frank, get home. Jesus right now is in Pittsburgh healing people!”
SID: Don’t say that when I’m drinking.
JOAN G: Well I did. I did. Well the courtyard of that First Presbyterian Church in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania was full. When the doors opened everyone just pushed us. We weren’t accustomed to anything like that. Nobody ever sat on the front seat of our Lutheran church. Nobody sat on the middle seat.
SID: No one wanted to.
JOAN G: No. And now they’re pushing us in. And we get in and we sit there, and I’m seeing Frank. “Frank, there’s a light on my head. Tell them turn off the light.” Oh my gosh.
SID: You’re blind.
JOAN G: I’m blind.
SID: You see light on your head.
JOAN G: I am lit up like a Christmas tree. I can feel that. “Frank, there’s a light on my head.” “No honey, open your eyes. There’s no light on your head.” “Frank, tell them to turn the light off.” “Please Joan, you’re scaring me. There is no light on your head.” And when I opened my eyes, sir, I could see all the way to the altar. I could see the stained glass windows. I could see the multitude of people and I was in the 53rd row and I could see everything. I said, “Frank, I could see!” He said, “No you can’t.” I said, “What?” I mean, we’re totally displaced. We knew nothing of this territory. “Frank, I can. I can see!” “No you can’t. Stop it, Joan.” And I said, “Frank, I can see that you’ve got a blue shirt on. You’ve got a grey…” “You can see.” “Yes. This is what we’ve come for.” And on the way home in the car I said, “Frank, I am going to go home and get every sick person I know. We’re going to charter a bus or a truck, or a car, or how many ever come with us and we’re going to take them to another miracle service.”
SID: How many years did you assist Miss Kuhlman?
JOAN G: Nine and half years until the day she went home to be with Jesus. And Gene Martin, which was her manager, called us and said, from the hospital, he said, “I am in the hospital with Miss Kuhlman and she said, Joan, get prepared because yours is the next service that she’s going to have in St. Louis.” What a thrill.
SID: I tell you this. Your miracle is in the bank!
SID: Okay. At the set now is Dr. Clarice Fluitt. She would have died without God touching your life. What was wrong with you?
CLARICE: Had tuberculosis and I had asthma, and just about every kind of allergic condition that you could have. And I read about this woman Kathryn Kuhlman. She was going to the full Gospel meeting in Dallas. This is 1971, September. And I said to my husband, I said, “Honey, there is this woman that prays for the sick,” and I said, “it’s just amazing what happens.” He says, “Sweetheart, I don’t want to disappointment, but God doesn’t use women.” That which he feared has come upon him. But he said, “Because I love you I’ll take you.” But he says, “This is all, you know, psychological and money-making.” And he was very doubting, very dubious. But we went there. And so there’s this woman named Maggie and she passes by, and she looks at me, and she said, “The Spirit of God is on you and you’re being healed.” Well she scared me so bad. The only person that I knew that was scarier than her was Kathryn Kuhlman. She comes out and she’s got this little red fuzzy hair, and she goes, “Have you been waiting long?” I lost George wherever he was. And so she’s just doing what she’s doing. Holy Spirit! And my husband told me, he says, “I don’t want anybody that’s dramatic.” Look what he got. I mean, so when Maggie came and said, “You’re being healed,” I said, “No, there’s nothing wrong.” Not only was I sick, I was lying on top of it. I went because I was not, I was so desirous to be healed. By this time Kathryn Kuhlman said, “Oh,” she said, “there’s a woman.” And her finger looked like it went out 5000 feet long. And she says, “And she’s so stubborn. It will take a sign.” And it was like somebody zipped off my head and poured hot oil in it. And then I started doing the St. Vitus dance over here.
SID: Was that a norm for you?
CLARICE: Not for me. I was very dignified. But I lost my dignity and got my deliverance. But she calls and so Maggie comes back, and I’m sitting here doing this, and she said, “Are you going to go up and claim your healing?” And I thought well the next thing isn’t going to kill me. I’m going up. Somebody has a buzzer. I went up and Kathryn Kuhlman turned around and she looked at me, and she said, “O dear Jesus.” And she put both hands on me. She says, “O dear Jesus, everything I have I give it to her.” Well I had no idea what she was saying, but I did know this that some force picked me up and threw me 15 feet across the room and I landed under Dino’s piano.
SID: On the piano?
Clarice; Under it. Under it. Sweetest place in the world. While I was under there, well at the end of it my husband comes up and he says, “What happened to you?” And I said, “I don’t know.” And so it was right after that, we’re walking through the melee of people, thousands of people getting in and out, and we got on the elevator immediately after.
SID: But were you healed at that moment?
CLARICE: Instantly. Instantly. That was 1971 and I’ve never had asthma. I’ve never had, all the allergies left. Everything left. No TB, not even TB scars. They were gone. Yay, God! Yay, God!
SID: I agree. It wasn’t Kathryn Kuhlman, it was the Messiah of Israel operating through her.
CLARICE: I mean, we got on the elevator and there were about maybe 12 people on the elevator, and when I walked in everybody passed out. And my husband said, “What did you do?” And I said, “I don’t know.” So he says, “Well you have to take the stairs.” So we’re walking down the stairs and people are plop, plop, plop, plop, plop. And for six months everywhere I went, the grocery store, the drug store, any time you’d get within three feet of people they’d be slain in the Spirit. Now I didn’t know.
SID: Did your husband just keep you in a closet, locked up?
CLARICE: He said I’ve got to hide you away. Something has happened. See, we did not know. When she said everything I’m carrying has been imparted to you, Paul says, “I long to be with you that I can impart you in spiritual blessing that will equip you to the end.”
SID: You’re telling me last time you were on our television show something so supernatural, someone called you, but they couldn’t have your number. They couldn’t have your husband’s cell number. It’s not listed. How did they get to you?
CLARICE: All right, this is what happened. After being with you I had to hire somebody to answer my phone. I mean, people, they were calling from Mars.
SID: There’s an unemployment problem in America.
CLARICE: I’m telling you.
SID: Every little bit helps.
CLARICE: All over the world, I had this lady call and she was telling me that her son was dying and had a heart disease, and we would just sent out cloths and do things like that. They’d call right back within a week and said the child was completely healed. The doctor has given a complete report, very serious death sentence, and that child, but this is the humor of God. God has an incredible sense of humor and this is what happened. This woman called and she said to my secretary that was answering the phone and said, “I want to talk to that woman.” And she said, “I saw her on Sid Roth and she does miracles and I want to talk to her.” And my associate said, “She’s not available. She’s in a meeting right now.” And you talk about importunity. About 15 minutes went by and she called again. She said, “Is she out of that meeting yet?” And she said, “No, she’s not out of the meeting.” And she says, “Well you need to go get her out.” She said, “This is serious. I need her now.” So they came and they said, “There’s this woman that’s really persistent.” I said, well, I mean, we had calls everywhere, Sid, and I’m trying my best to say which ones you’re supposed to go to. So I have my office in my home and I went into a den, and I sat down, and my husband’s cell phone was sitting here next to me, and it rang, and I saw this is one of the kids. We have five children. And I picked the phone up and this woman said, “Is that you?” I said, “Yes.” I said, “How did you get this number?” And she said, “I prayed and God said call this number.” So I said, what are you going to do? I’m going to take the call. I’m going to take the call…
SID: My next guest, Joan Gieson, Joan is affectionately called the Miracle Lady because she pulls people out of wheelchairs. That’s a passion. Anyone hurting. Talk about an anointing. And you know what we’re going to have? A miracle explosion.
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. Welcome to miracle explosion. Why do I say miracle explosion? Because I have three people that operate in the gift of miracles and anyone by themselves would have been enough. But when you put these three together one could put a thousand to flee, but two can put 10,000 to flee. What can three people that operate in miracles do? Here’s what I know. We’re going to have more miracles than we’ve ever had in the history of our ministry. You know, I’ll tell you, this is one of the best audiences we have ever had. Are you ready for a miracle explosion? I can’t think of a better guest to have for miracle explosion than Joan Hunter. And but my staff, they’re smart, they looked up the word “explosion,” Joan, in the dictionary. Listen to this definition. Remember, it’s a miracle explosion. The dictionary defines “explosion” as the sudden, boy do I like that word, the sudden loud or violent release of energy or power that happens when something breaks loose. I tell you something is gonna break loose here. Joan, are you as convinced as me?
JOAN H: Yes.
SID: Now some people don’t know you that well. I know you well. We’ve interviewed you a number of times and I’ve interviewed your parents. And I don’t know anyone else that has had so many miracles worldwide as the Happy Hunters. But you are building on their legacy. But you told me that things are even getting stronger in the miraculous for you. For instance, tell me a few things that have happened recently.
JOAN H: Well I love praying for people with fibromyalgia. I love praying for people.
SID: There’s no cure for that. What do you mean fibromyalgia?
JOAN H: In the natural there’s no cure, but with God there is. And there’s no cure for people that have gone through hell, people that have been diagnosed with PTSD. There is no cure for bipolar schizophrenia.
SID: Do many people with fibromyalgia get healed through the power of God that you’ve witnessed with your very eyes?
JOAN H: I don’t deal with the fibromyalgia first. I deal with what opened the door to fibromyalgia.
SID: But God showed you a key that I don’t think too many people understand. The healing, that I believe, is what has stopped you from being healing already. And Joan is going to release it now.
JOAN H: And this is an incredible revelation that God has given me years ago, because when I went through the hell, my own personal hell in my life and I had to deal with divorce, breast cancer, financial ruins and the whole bit, really all the same week, that and then I go and I get diagnosed with breast cancer, and I’m like dying on the inside. You care less about the breast cancer and but I was dying on the inside, and I had to go for after God’s heart. Counselors said you’ll never get well. Everybody I went to, nobody said, nobody gave me any hope but the Word of God. And so I went in there and I said, “God, what is it in here that has triggered the breast cancer?” And so when I got my heart healed of the trauma that I had gone through, betrayal, abandonment, worry with a capital “W,” okay, and all that, when I got my heart healed the breast cancer went away. And so when I, and I teach people how to starve their sicknesses to death because this is so important. Jesus has come to heal. He’s come to heal not just your heart, not just your body, but your body, mind, soul, spirit and finances. God wants you healed. We’ve all been traumatized in some form or fashion through life, through birth, through just different situations and that stronghold can hold onto the sickness. So I’m going to pray for you to get free of any kind of trauma. And you think, it can’t be that easy. It’s 35 years ago. It can’t be that easy. Well first of all, close your mouth and say, yes it can be that easy.
SID: How can I do that with my mouth closed?
JOAN H: Yes. And so Father, right now in the name of Jesus, I send the word of healing as there are so many people watching right this moment who have been traumatized, who have had their heart hurt, who have had their bodies hurt, and they get better. They get better. They get better but not whole. Father, in the name of Jesus, remove all the trauma in their heart, all the trauma. I’m sensing even trauma to the lungs like being pushed like that, all the trauma in the chest area. And Father, right now in the name of Jesus, all the trauma in the necks, down the spine, command all of that to go, all the pain to go, all the cellular memory of it to go. And Father, I speak complete supernatural freedom. Any damage that stress has caused in their life, throughout their body, digestive system, I speak complete health and wholeness, resurrection to some of your body parts that have quit, in particular the kidneys. They’re just kind of shutting down. I speak resurrection life into those kidneys, into those hearts, the physical hearts, to rise and be brand new in Jesus’ name. Hallelujah. Glory to God. Woo-hoo!
SID: Real quick, you have a favorite scripture in teaching called Hidden Treasures of Healing.
JOAN H: I believe God for some hidden treasures, any lost whatevers: lost finances, lost ideas, lost family members, whatever, and Father bring it to me. So I get a letter in the mail and it says you don’t owe any money on your building in downtown Houston. No joke. I mean, hello, I don’t own a building in downtown Houston. So I thought, well they didn’t ask me for any money. So I sent a certified letter to find out what was going on. Come to find out my dad left me two percent in a building in downtown Houston. So when that sells I’m going to be a millionaire. Glory to God and, yes, It’s Supernatural is going to get a blessing, too.
SID: Oh good. Let me tell you about this woman that’s coming up next. Clarice was healed in a Kathryn Kuhlman meeting. A few days later, not realizing it, she goes into an elevator and everyone in the elevator falls out under the power of God. We’re going to be right back.
Sid: This week I’m featuring a special book called “The Wigglesworth Standard” based on the life and unpublished messages on Smith Wigglesworth. And a lot of people aren’t aware of it but Smith Wigglesworth had one of the greatest miracles ministries in modern times. He prayed for deaf were able to hear and cancers cured, legs and feet creatively formed all he had was stumps previously. He healed the violently insane, 14 people were raised from the dead and those are just a few of the miracles. So I want to read on the book it’s called “An Urgent Telegram” from the book “The Wigglesworth Standard.”
During the early years of Wigglesworth ministry he received a desperate telegram from a family in a town some 200 miles away pleading with him to come and pray for a young woman. Without hesitation Wigglesworth traveled the distance as quickly as possible. Upon his arrival Wigglesworth discovered that the young lady had become a raging demoniac. Her parent and husband were distraught with the situation they couldn’t even bring the baby to her for fear of harm that she might do to herself or to the infant.
The family led Wigglesworth on the staircase to the room where the young mother was on the floor being held down by 5 men. Even though she was physically very frail the evil power that controlled her was more than a match for all 5. As Wigglesworth entered the room the evil spirit possessed her snarled out of her eyes and snarled at him “We are many you can’t cast us out.” With complete calm Wigglesworth firmly stated “Jesus can greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world.” “She’s ours we won’t give her up.” The demoniac voices growled repeatedly with hideously laughter.
Undaunted Wigglesworth commanded “Be quiet in the name of Jesus come out of her you foul spirits.” With a shriek and one last attempt to retain the grasp on the young woman 37 different demonic spirits came out of her giving their names as they exited. At the authority of the name of Jesus the demons had to relinquish their territory and the woman was totally delivered.
The fragile exhausted wife was tenderly bathed and put to bed by her very grateful husband. She slept for 14 hours while her family rejoiced at the power and love of a loving God. The next morning a beautiful young lady nursed the baby and then joined her husband then Wigglesworth in celebration at what the Lord had done. As they ate together they gave thanks that the Lord had spared no expense to send his servant Smith Wigglesworth on such an errand of mercy.
And I’m reading from the book “Wigglesworth Standard” which is based on 37 unpublished manuscripts the life of Wigglesworth in the author Peter Madden teaches from each of these unpublished manuscripts the principles that Wigglesworth observed to walk in the awesome power. And Wigglesworth believed that this generation that we’re living in right now would see creative miracles would see demons cast out. Would see the same works that Jesus did and even greater and I believe that this book is going to be the standard for us to learn and do and walk and do and walk as Jesus walked….the books called “The Wigglesworth Standard.” My guest this week Ira Kellman a Jewish man that is red hot for Jesus. He worked for MGM as a Junior Executive viewing 300 movies a year. He was a real jet setter, and pill popper and all different types of drugs. His career was his God and one day he’s watching Samson and Delilah and the Spirit of God literally shows up and 16 months later he has an experience with Jesus. And a few weeks after that the Holy Spirit began teaching Ira what He wanted Ira to do and He told Ira that He would be a prophet evangelist. What did you think when God told you that Ira?
Ira: I didn’t know what an evangelist was (Laughing). I never heard the word evangelist before.
Sid: Well we Jewish people that’s not common vernacular.
Ira: I know and I grew up in a Jewish Catholic neighborhood I had a lot of Catholic friends and they talked about the nuns and I talked about the rabbi’s and I never talked about the name evangelist. And prophet I didn’t really know I knew that the terminology that Moses was a prophet but I didn’t know what it really meant and I didn’t really hear from God to really prophesy I never really thought about that. But what happened to me was when I got saved God appeared to me in a vision and you know that God is all glory and I just saw you know clouds of glory and this voice spoke to my heart and said “I’ve called you to be a prophet evangelist and I’m going to send you around the world and you’re going to go before kings and queens and everywhere you go there’s going to be healings and miracles. And He told me these other things too and I said “God I know that You’re talking to me about what’s an evangelist, what’s a healing, what’s a miracle?” And I said Lord I know that You’re talking but I don’t understand it but that’s okay I asked you to lead me guide me show me I want to do what You want me to do but use me, show me, lead me, teach me.” And that was my simple prayer. You know just like my simple prayer Jehovah God if Jesus is Your Son give me this understanding this revelation. Just simple prayers you know God answers just simple prayers. And so that’s what I’ve been doing for the last you know 30 years.
Sid: Ira how did you Jewish family react?
Ira: Ah my mother went crazy I came home and said (shouting) “Monga, dad, Jesus wants to say that He loves you.”
Ira: She started yelling and screaming “Don’t talk to me about that name if you want to go live with the monks go live with the monks stop talking about Jesus!” And you know she never heard about Jesus it was just her reacting in fear of something strange. Here she knew I was on drugs, I go away about for about a year and I come home and I’m talking about Jesus. What happened to my son he went crazy on drugs or something (Laughing).
Sid: So now you’re a prophet evangelist except you’re not too sure what that is; you’re preaching to your parents they’re very unhappy over this I think they loved you better on drugs. And what happened next?
Ira: Well they understood me on drugs but just can’t with Jesus. Well you know she was always yelling and screaming every time I talked about Jesus and then I was…the Lord said to me “Go and preach in Central Park.” And I said “Okay I’ll go do it but I’m only 4 months old saved Sid.” And I said “Lord I said ‘If I needed a Bible I know these people need Bibles but I can’t buy everybody a Bible and said to me in my heart a still small voice Go to the America Bible Society.’” I went to “The America Bible Society” and they led me to different departments and the guy said “Well I just got saved and…
Sid: Ira out of curiosity had you ever heard of such a thing The America Bible Society?”
Sid: That’s what I thought.
Ira: No I’m running around New York with…go to Cinemas go to Premiers with the big lights with Movie Stars and big directors and I’m on big dinners from these people. I’m taking drugs running around with rock stars and all I can think about is music stores and movie theaters and not “The America Bible Society.”
Sid: So you went to the Society.
Ira: And the guy says to me “What do you want?” And I say I’m Jewish and God just saved me and I want to tell people about Jesus and I want to give people Bibles so I want everything you have for free I’m Jewish. And he says to me “I’ll give you anything you want and he starts giving me the 4 gospels “Good news for Man” and all of the other literature they have. And you know they had Knapsack and the shopping bags full of gospel literature. And he said “Any time you want anything I’ll give you everything for free. And that’s how I sort of started my preaching ministry.
Sid: Tell me one experience in Central Park preaching.
Ira: Well you know you have to realize I had to really pray for boldness because I’ll tell you a little story. When I was in high school I got up in front of the class and they wanted to know who you are when you start in September and what you did for the summer. And everybody’s shaking knees and knocking all over the place and I looked around at everybody and I fainted.
Sid: But you’re so bold now I don’t understand that doesn’t sound like the man I know now Ira.
Ira: Well that’s what Jesus does for you. When I was about to start you know doing what God wanted me to do and take these pockets I need boldness I need courage. I said “I need You to fill my mouth and give me wisdom and just help me.” And that’s what He does. And little did I know Sid that there is a scripture in the Bible that says open your mouth wide and I’ll fill it you know. And so I started telling people about Jesus and a lot of backsliders started coming back to the Lord and I started praying for people.
Sid: Well what did you do did you just stood on a bench and started preaching?
Sid: My goodness it’s a good thing you weren’t too educated you were doing what the Bible says to do. The more educated you get the less you do that the more sophisticated you get the less you do. That childlike faith is pretty good Ira.
Ira: We need that childlike faith. You know we have to be uninhibited for the Lord and we also have to be fools for the Lord. And I have to tell you this I used to go to Central Park with my friends and a lot of other people and we used to hang out at the fountain there right by the little lake and take drugs and LSD and pick up woman and everything. Our time in Central Park was on drugs and you know getting high on marijuana. And here it is I used to be weird and strange and now I’m peculiar and God sends you back to Central Park and as a peculiar person in Him preaching the word.
Sid: God confounds the wisdom of the wise. Did people come to the Lord?
Ira: A lot of people came to the Lord a lot of people started getting healed. People were crying…
Sid: Tell me about 1 person that got healed. How did you even know how to pray for someone?
Ira: See after I got saved I moved into a Christian commune it was a community in upstate New York and then that’s when I finally got a New Testament and they believe in healing and I was learning things there and it started learning different things.
Sid: What was the first person you prayed for that got healed?
Ira: Well you’re going to love this. I prayed for a friend of mine she had a bone blocking her breathing all of her life and I said “Let me pray for you.” And I put my finger on her nose and I felt the bone move and the breathing open.
Sid: If you were a fanatic before imagine how you were after that.
Ira: I tell you what I go “Wow Lord” and she goes “Wow I can breathe! I can breathe!” And you know before she was talking real strange and the breathing comes forth and everyone around her that knew her while she’s breathing and she’s talking right and everything is wonderful. You get so excited when God does something. And so even today I’m so big on testimonies you know to hear peoples’ testimonies on miracles or creative miracles and…
Sid: Did you ever in your wildest imagination pray for someone dead and they would come back to life?
Ira: No, no!
Sid: I’ll tell you what let’s hold that for tomorrows broadcast.
Sid: My guest I’ll introduce you to in a moment if any one’s ever been red hot for Jesus it’s him. Because he got hit with a 125 million volts of electricity he literally got struck down with lightning we’ll get to that in a moment. Probably the most red hot man I’ve ever heard of is a man by the name of Smith Wigglesworth. I mean among other things there are at least 14 verified cases of people being dead that were raised from the dead under his ministry. And I have a brand new book and this book is based on 37 unpublished manuscripts but there are a couple testimonies I want to read to you so you get a feel for the potential within all of us. And Wigglesworth prophesied that there was a generation coming up of people that will be walking in this miraculous power and based on other prophesies that he’s had I believe the generation that he’s talking about is right now. Listen:
While staying in a home of a pastor of a church of England Wigglesworth and the pastor were sitting together talking after supper. No doubt the subject of the conversation was that the fellow had no legs. And artificial limbs in those days were unlike the sophisticated limbs of today. Wigglesworth said to the man suddenly which he often did with cases like this “Go and get a pair of new shoes in the morning.” (How would you like to be the man and a prophet says to you, you have no legs and a prophet says to you “Go get a new pair of new shoes in the morning”).
Well the fellow thought it was some kind of a joke, however after Wigglesworth and the pastor had retired to the respective rooms for the night God said to the pastor “Do as my servant had said.” There was no more sleep for the man that night he rose up early went downtown and stood awaiting for the shoe shop to open. The manager eventually arrived and opened the shop for business. The pastor went in sat down presently. The assistant came in and said “Good morning Sir can I help you?” The man said “Yes would you get me a pair of shoes please.” “Yes sir size and color.” The pastor hesitated the assistant saw his condition and said “Sorry Sir we can’t help you.” “It’s alright young man but I do want a pair of shoes size 8 color black.” This is the way to get the requested shoes. A few minutes later he returned and handed them to the man. The man put one stump into a shoe and instantly a foot and a leg formed and then the same thing happened with the other leg. He walked out of that shop and not only with a new pair of shoes but also with a new pair of legs. Wigglesworth was not surprised he expected the result. He had often made remarks like this as far as God is concerned there is no difference in forming a limb and healing a broken bone.
Well this book reveals secrets from Wigglesworth a generation that will see creative miracles like this. And I believe that’s you and that’s I and that is Ira Kellman. Ira is a Jewish believer in Jesus he comes from a reformed Jewish background and he really had a good job he was a junior executive with MGM. His job was reviewing movies a year and now he was a jetsetter type and what was life like Ira?
Ira: Well I was taking a lot of drugs and marijuana, LSD you know and pills all sorts of pills running around with Movie Stars and rock stars and at world premieres you know traveling to Europe and thought you were having a lot of fun. And just now living the so to say the highlife there and the jet set scene life.
Sid: What was your religious background?
Ira: Well I grew up in a Jewish reformed home but when I got Bar Mitzvah Sid I gave my Bible to my mother. I never read the Bible never talked about God and never went back to synagogue, never went back to temple. I didn’t know anybody that knew God so I was totally out there without knowing anything.
Sid: Now one night and things weren’t going so terrific even the drug seemed to be getting you high and fulfilling anymore. And one night you were watching…why were you watching Samson and Delilah?
Ira: Oh I love the Old Testament movies and I love the Ten Commandments and I still love the Ten Commandments with Charlton Heston I still love Samson and Delilah. I just had this thing in me for Old Testament movies, also I love movies. So I’m watching Samson and Delilah and I decided not to go to the disco tech that night and spend the night with my friends and taking drugs and I was getting really disillusioned with drugs and this and that. And I knew a lot of people a lot of wealthy people, a lot of famous people but nobody was happy you know. And while I was watching this movie I start thinking about the story rabbis were telling me while I was in Hebrew school. And I said why am I thinking about those stories now? And Samson was tied up with the Philistines and they were taking him to their city and they was mock and scourge him and kill him they fought. When it come to the rest of the Valley of Lehigh and Sampson prayed to God of Abraham and Jacob and the cords just break off of him and he starts killing 1000 men. Well by God’s grace God and I didn’t know it was God’s grace God’s power His presence came into my bedroom and the whole room was full of power and I didn’t understand.
Sid: Had you ever experienced anything like that before?
Ira: No I’d never never.
Sid: Help me understand, what do you mean the whole room was full of power explain?
Ira: Well when I walk in the room I could feel power all over the place like I move my hands around in the air I can feel it. You know I can feel it it’s like it’s thick.
Ira: And there was a very unusual experience.
Sid: Were you afraid? We’re you what was going on inside of you?
Ira: Well there was a little fear going on because I never experienced anything. But I wasn’t too afraid I knew I wouldn’t get harmed. I was bewildered I believe that’s probably the best word I could use I was bewildered. But I ran upstairs I got my Bible and my mother said “What do you want your Bible for?” I said “Never mind.” And I kept on this and I gave it to her and I never read it again and she doesn’t read it and my father doesn’t read it I didn’t know any Jewish people that read the Bible.
Sid: So why did you want to read it all of a sudden?
Ira: Excuse me?
Sid: Why did you want to read it all of a sudden?
Ira: Well when this thing happened this presence came into my bedroom it just came into my heart “Go get your Bible.” And sometimes you do things you don’t know why you’re doing it.
Sid: Okay so you get your Bible what happened next?
Ira: And I go downstairs and I open my Bible and I don’t know whose what in there I don’t know any books I don’t know anything (Laughing). And I open my Bible and say “God I don’t know if You are but if You are I’m going to find You.” Well how do you find God? I don’t know how to find God. And I started reading the Psalms and started reading different stories in Genesis and after many many months and finding many truths in the scriptures I came to believe and I put my faith in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob I believed that He was real.
Sid: But before that you were in between the Samson and the Delilah and the presence of the Lord come into the room and you started to read the Old Testament you had a few amazing supernatural things happen tell me about them.
Ira: Well one day I was living on a farm in Upstate New York and I went outside early in the morning and I went out to talk to the Lord. All of a sudden I just heard the whole heavens play to as an orchestra. And it was even light yet it was still dark and the stars were just you know shining bring all over the place. And I thought “Wow that is really neat” and it just played for a couple of minutes I guess it was just totally amazing. And I believe God was trying to bring me closer to Him and show me more of His majesty and more of His power and more of His glory. And I don’t understand I don’t know anything about the supernatural but that was supernatural and God gave me another supernatural experience there. And I was listening to different radio shows and then I was hearing about Jesus and right before I was about to get saved I felt this power trying to strangle me and all I could say was “Jesus!” And I was sleeping and it was a gray, gray, gray day out and all of a sudden this beam of light went through this cloud went through the window and I saw this beam of light went through my heart. And had total peace and that feeling that strangulation that force stopped doing what it wanted to do to me.
Sid: So you really linked that there was power in the name of Jesus.
Ira: And I didn’t even know it all I could do is yell out Jesus because I’m hearing about Jesus on the radio and I don’t even know anything. I’m not saved yet I don’t even have faith about Jesus. But listening and having a hungry heart and listening for weeks and months hearing about Jesus and sometimes it just come out of my heart. Sometimes words just come out of us supernaturally you know saved and not saved and by God’s grace He gives us words, He gives us situations in our lives to protect us to lead us to guide us you know.
Sid: And so a little over a year goes by almost a year and half in 1971and what was the circumstance that caused you to cross over that line and say “I believe that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah?”
Ira: Well I was listening to different radio shows and I didn’t know should I say New Testament terminology and I said to God but I believe that God is form me. And I said “God my mother knows me as her son and if Jesus is Your Son like all of these people that I don’t know who they are they are talking on the radio. I didn’t know who they are but if Jesus is You Son give me this revelation, give me this understanding I want to know that Jesus is Your Son the Messiah the Savior of the world.” Just a simple question we don’t have to get deep and complex with God He’ll answer the simple things and then He’ll show us the profound. And so a couple of days later I was with somebody who was…I was listening to somebody between 12 and 12:30 at night and I had my Bible out the Old Testament and I was just reading in Genesis and all of a sudden this light went on in me you know this realization “Oh my God Jesus is the Messiah!” And the man gave the alter call over the radio and Sid I was born again over the radio through somebody’s prayer for me to receive the Messiah over the radio.
Sid: Ira we’re out of time but I believe over the radio people are going to receive the Messiah this week and they are going to walk into that same manifest presence of God they’re going to go into. It’s literally going to go right out of your radio this week.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be healed to be whole. And I don’t know a better person to be talking about that than my guest the Director of Whole Life Ministries in Augusta, Georgia Sandra Kennedy. And on yesterday’s broadcast Sandra we were talking about the book that we’re making available this week “Preparation for a move of God” which God told you to write. Tell me about the move of God that’s coming on planet earth.
Sandra: I believe Sid that we are absolutely sitting on just the very edge of a tremendous outpouring of the presence of God and I believe that people need to get ready for it. I believe that you need to check yourself out so to speak. You know I asked the question if Jesus is the Son of God and if He is how does it affect your life? In other words if Jesus really is the Son of God and you have accepted Him as your Lord and Savior has it affected your life in such an extent that anybody watching or seeing you can see that God has done a tremendous thing in your life and they want what you have? Now that is the key. I believe that if we were to begin to look at ourselves and make sure that we are not playing church but that we are being the church.
Sid: What I find is that most people that go to church act one way and then when they get around their friends that are not Christians they just blend in.
Sandra: Right, right and they…and my question is did they have a real encounter with God? I mean that would be my question. Sid I’ll throw this out real fast; I was a graduate of Southwest Baptist Theological Seminary I taught in their churches, I was Youth Director and taught on the state level for them working in youth and working for them and I was not saved.
Sandra: Now I thought I was meaning I thought I was. But I had an encounter with God that transformed my life and God later spoke to me and told me that my salvation actually took place after I had led many people to the Lord. People say “How could you have done that?” Because the word of the Lord does not return to Him void.
Sid: Did you as a young child walk down the altar and say a prayer?
Sandra: Yes I did but my life was not changed and that’s the key my life was not changed. I was battling areas in my life I was up and down like a yoyo and I didn’t like me I didn’t like Christians. I didn’t like what I saw in their life they were to me just a bunch of hypocrites and don’t misunderstand me I was a hypocrite myself. And I was miserable in my walk with God. But when I had a real encounter with Him I mean an encounter that transformed my life and I was willing to move me out of the way and let Him have me and give myself over to Him and let Him be Lord of my life a peace came to that I’ve never known before in my life. A joy came to me that no one could ever take from me. I quit this yoyo type living and I began to be steady in my walk with Him. It didn’t mean I didn’t have problems and didn’t have some up and downs but on a whole my life was changed and transformed and I became hungry for the things of God. I wanted to know Him and I’m excited about what He was doing. I think being a Christian is one of the most exciting things on the face of this earth.
Sid: So what should someone do when they walked down the aisle when they were 11 years old in a Baptist church and they believe intellectually but they’ve never experientially met the Lord? They like for instance I understand that your sanctuary which I haven’t been to yet but I will shortly when people walk in and there is not even a service going on there’s a tangible presence of God’s Spirit. They’ve never experienced anything like this what should they do?
Sandra: I think first of all that people need to stop and take inventory of their life. I think that they need to look and see we know if we are playing church. We know if we are acting religious acting the role we carry our Bibles without reading our Bibles. We do not have… God is not real to us He seems to be far away. I think the first thing to do is to get honest and admit those kinds of things. And then begin to cry out for an experience with God and willing for Him to come in and transform our life. The Bible says “Those that diligently seek Him find Him.” See the whole crux of the matter is coming back to this word of God. God’s word is truth and do we believe it or do we not believe it. He said “If you seek Him you’ll find Him.” He said “If you come to Him He will not reject you or cast you away.” Now you have to come to Him in faith for we come asking God into our life God is faithful but then we have to walk away from the things in our pass. We have to do an about face, we have to do an about face and turn away from that which had a hold of us. And when I teach people… when I was talking in the first part of the week Sid I talked about that when God visited me and He talked about growing up the Body of Christ teaching them victory. I teach a very very victorious message. I mean it’s very victorious message I teach you how to overcome, how to conquer, how to rule how to reign. How to head not the tail and my intent is to make God so real to you that He becomes such a vital part of your life that I mean you’re just consumed by Him you just fall in love with Him.
Sid: Sandra there’s someone listening to us right now and they’ve gotten a death sentence from the doctor they have an incurable illness encourage them right now.
Sandra: Well if they have faith to believe God to save them you get healed exactly like you get saved. You got saved because you believed the Bible somebody told you about Jesus and you believed it you believed that He did. That You asked Him save you that He that He would do it. And listen you believed that before you ever are saved and you confess it before you’re saved. You confess with your mouth “Thank You Lord for saving me.” You aren’t saved until you do it healing is the same way you find in the Bible confess His word and healed me.” By the stripes of Jesus you were healed pass tense were healed not trying to get healed were healed. And you move into the mode “I thank You for healing me, I praise You for healing me, I thank You for healing me. You are greater than cancer I come against cancer, I come against it in the name of Jesus” and you begin to confess over your life what God’s word says about your life. God says you’re healed, God said you’re saved, God said that He sent His word to heal you, God said He already done this for you. And you begin to say “Oh I understand the report I know the report but there’s a greater report I will receive the report of the Lord.” And you just let God be big and you say God you said in your book that “By Your stripes, by the stripes of Jesus I am healed.” You quit talking the negative and you think about you dwell on the word of God and believe what God has said. The Bible said that God’s word is medicine so every single day you take a dose of medicine.
Sid: Do you?
Sandra: Yes every day of my life.
Sid: With as much as you know and as many years as you’ve been in the word on healing you still have to do it every day?
Sandra: I listen to a tape on healing every day of my life.
Sid: What would happen if you did not?
Sandra: Well there are times when I haven’t I mean…
Sid: I mean why are you doing this why are you doing it every day?
Sandra: To build my faith. Well there’s some days I can’t do it because my schedules but on a whole my intent is to listen to one every day.
Sid: You know what I love about you Sandra is that you are being really honest. A lot of people that teach faith and teach healing they just tell the good things they don’t tell the bad things but you’re really being transparent.
Sandra: Well it’s because I…you know Jesus is so wonderful I don’t mind being transparent I mean He works anyway.
Sid: You know I’m reminded when all you knew was one scripture the Lord revealed. Your mother was dying from cancer and the Lord said the portion of the Lord’s prayer is all you need. Would you…I believe if you will pray this over people right now that that’s so real to you you saw your mother healed of cancer from that one line of scripture. I believe that many people with neck aches right now have been healed. But as you begin to say that scripture Sandra I believe that many people will be healed.
Sandra: The Bible says in the Lord’s prayer “Our Father which art in heaven hallow it be Thy name, Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth (we’re on earth) will be done on earth as it is in heaven.” And then He said to me “There is not sickness in heaven.” If people would but believe the word of God believing is the key believing God’s bigger than the problem, believe God’s bigger than the medical report. And begin to confess what God says about you fall in love with Him. Go get your concordance and look at the scriptures about healing and look out and dwell on them. Go to Proverbs 24:22 begin to look up those scriptures and mediate on the word of God and believe what the Bible says. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. If He did it one time, if He did it for my mother he’ll do it for you. God is in the healing business He is still in the healing business and He bore on Himself and He took the price for our healing. Himself the Bible says in Matthew took our infirmities and bare our sicknesses. He sent His word to healed them to preserve their life. All I want you to do is to begin to have hope and you come from home and something can be done about this. I mean God is bigger than this I don’t have to accept this God is bigger and this will begin to accept the word and watch the word begin to work in your life and begin to fall in love with that word. And speak the word of God and make God big and powerful and mighty in your life He’s so wonderful, He really is!
Sid: I believe that if you’ll pray right now very quickly people will be healed.
Sandra: Father in the name of Jesus we come against that which has come against my brother and sisters in Christ. We curse to the root cancer, we come against sickness and father in the name of Jesus Father I ask Father that they will reach and grab hold of the word of God and believe for healing today. We call them healed be healed in the name of Jesus we release healing in your body in Jesus name.
Sid: And now do something that you could not do before if that’s possible by faith and action because if you’ve been healed then act like you’ve been healed in Jesus name.
Sid: Do you see what’s going on in the world Mishpochah you read end time Bible prophesies you hear about so many Jewish people now turning to Jesus you see what’s going on in the nation of Israel. I mean we are in as the Orthodox Jewish Rabbis say the footsteps of the Messiah. They’re right they just don’t know that His name is Jesus. And to who much is given much is required. There is a tremendous tremendous call of God on your life but will you achieve your destiny. Is there a ceiling over you that you’ve been in a rut for so long you don’t know how to stop it you know that you want to stop it but you know that you just don’t know what to do to stop it. And I’ve asked my friend Dave Roberson who’s pastor of the Prayer Center Family in Tulsa, Oklahoma to teach a bit about his series his 4 cassette series it’s called “Removing the Ceiling” subtitled “The Cost of Exultation.” Dave on yesterday’s broadcast we found out that you were really sabotaged as a child your mother was an alcoholic, your father ended up in prison, she had many men living with her and you were looking for a father image and the best you had was a grandfather who actually helped you out a lot but by the same token said “You’ll never amount to anything” and was cursing you. Had you just found the Lord and just been Spirit filled and went to a church every Sunday the rest of your life and went to Sunday school and lived like the world the rest of your life you wouldn’t even come close to fulfilling your destiny. But that’s what most Christian’s think Christianity is go to church on Sunday and be a good person and have your life insurance policy.
Dave: Well Sid when God brought me out what we were talking about yesterday He brought me out through edification and praying in tongues. And this is such an incredible gift such an incredible gift because God has sent this supernatural language all the way from heaven and He literally transfers it to our spirit. 1st Corinthian’s 14:14 says “If I pray in an unknown tongue my spirit prayeth which is my human spirit. And for it to be my human spirit the Holy Spirit literally transfers that language to our spirit so that in reality it’s us who’s doing the praying. Because He is the head and we’re the church and where His church is that’s where He has authority.” And so He is literally borrowing my authority and then God the Holy Spirit is formulating this perfect prayer on my behalf and He’s asking me to cooperate by yielding over and letting Him speak the thoughts of God His plan for my life, the mysteries of the understandings of Christ. And this is what began to build my up out of that. I was so intimidated, I was intimidated by father figures that He traded all of those weaknesses for His strength. And each time that He would build me up above one of those strongholds in my life I can remember how it happened. I would pray in tongues and medicate His word and He would build me up above it. And as soon as He built me up above it I was stronger than it was. Then I would get to get a look at it through God’s eyes and I would see how pathetic it was, how destroyed my life was, how hurt I was. And I would see it through God’s eyes and sometimes seeing it through His eyes would make me weep and I entered into crying and I’d cry and I’d want to be free. And I’d found out that that was a kind of intercession. And God said “Good” He said to me one day He said “Good” He moved on my spirit and showed me. He says “When that had a hold of you and you didn’t care or you didn’t know how to be free what did I have to work with? But when I was able through praying in tongues able to edify you and build you above it then then you saw it through My eyes and you hated it as much as I did and that’s where I got the faith from you to set you free. So just before we went off yesterday on the program we was talking about a church that was not far from you and that they actually don’t permit speaking in tongues in the main assembly.
Sid: Because they don’t want anything divisive and you know what they are winning people to the Lord, they’re bursting at the seams they’re doing something right.
Dave: Yes, well at that I was talking about my associate Tim Stemple and he managed Rex Humbard and Rex Humbard was the largest ministry in the world. And about 12 years ago he came aboard with me and God was just really teaching me then that praying in tongues he pulls down the strong holds and begins to really set yourself free. So we and Tim literally died of the worst things in our life together. He began to pray in tongues and fast and we did these things together. And Tim has the most incredible government gift and myself my soul is so trained I could yield in any area. Just by nature you know people say I’ve got a wit that I’m funny you know I just get real funny and get on a role I can use that, I can use humor to teach with. I can teach on anything it doesn’t make any difference to me I can transform to anything the crowd wants me to be I mean I can win souls with it even. It’s almost like a president who will die or he will buy an agency of some kind that will find out what the public wants and then they can make him into that public relations. Well I can find out the temperature of a crowd, I can find out what they want they want. And believe me Sid I know how to give them what they want. And Tim is the best government guest probably in the world and he can organize into existence anything you want to organize. Having a large church like that is not difficult you have to find out how much of God do the people want and we’re not going to go any further out of the flesh and you just stop on that line.
Sid: For instance you must end by noon or you’ll have a church spit
Dave: Yes Sir a user friendly.
Sid: Or half of them will walk out (Laughing.)
Dave: You’ve got to find out these things so I at one point in the walk that I was walking for revival here in Tulsa. At one point I thought “It seems like everything you teach is slowing me down at this point I can do all of these things and get a crowd why don’t you let Me do this?” And He said “Because He said You would get hungry again because you can’t stay away from prayer and when you would get hungry you would start walking in the principals I taught you again then you’d start teaching the crowd and you would go right back where you are now and it wouldn’t be Me building your ministry it would be you building it.” And He said He gave me a promise He said “You walk with me and I build your ministry, He said not you building it I’ll build it and He said there will be no stopping place that it absolutely will be no stopping place in what I can do to someone who will give themselves completely to Me.” And Sid we’re after Tulsa, we have people here every night praying in tongues and speaking the word of God over the city every night. He showed me that if He lets…if I if I let Him loose in my life and let Him do what He can do as God the anointing after anointing that He’s going to bring us to and has brought us to that He will do more in 5 years and these years to come than He has done in my entire life in just a 5 year period. So yes I know how to do all of those things but I also know about taking a city and I know about revival and I know what brings it. And I often refer to things this way I can raise money Sid I’ve been flowing into meetings specifically for raising money because I developed I trained my soul so good I could do it with or without God. And people flew me in to do those things, I know how to do all of those things. When I started praying in tongues everything that was not of God He started killing in me. And everything that was of Him that’s what He left and began to build. And right now Sid I can tell you (Laughing) with where I’ve come from in my life peace is becoming the stronger and stronger reward. And the love that He’s giving me for people I’m ready to breakdown and cry right here I did not know that it could be this way. And I can promise all of you that are listening that you get these tapes and you begin to walk this walk. You begin to take those times of praying in tongues and letting Him edify you and begin that change in you. I can promise you if you stay faithful for just about 1 hour a day I can promise you that a process of change from edification will begin in your life that will ending up changing those strongholds, destroying those ceilings that’s over your life making one year like the next until death came to pass until a generation is gone, till all is ended your life is gone and you hardly known what you’ve had done to do. But I can guarantee you it will all start 30 minutes to just an hour a day just letting Him edify you and begin to build you up on your most holy God kind of faith.
Sid: And what does the average household watch of television per day? All you have to do is take l of those 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 hours whatever it is and pray in unknown tongues.
Sid: And what a difference. Do you realize what would happen in America if just the people listening to us right now were to do that?
Dave: Oh my.
Sid: One hour a day.
Dave: Oh my.
Sid: But you have an anointing when you teach on this subject and what I find is that the more I listen to you the more I desire to pray in unknown tongues.
Dave: (Laughing) I’m so glad. Although I can say this and I think I said this before but I can’t just help it. The day you decide to pray l hour in tongues is the day that you walk into the class room of the Holy Spirit. That fine dressed gentleman at the chalkboard is non-other than the Holy Spirit Himself. And because of that medium of tongues between Him and you what He knows He’s about to teach you.
Sid: Mishpochah you want to have hours of teaching by Dave…
Sid: We want everywhere to have such a passion for Jesus but the truth of the matter is because of the flesh, because of the devil, because what’s being pounded through communication airways most believers are in various degrees of a rut. And enough is enough there’s a job for you to do there’s a destiny on your life. There’s a purpose for your life and I’ve asked my friend Dave Roberson who’s the pastor of Prayer Center Family Tulsa, Oklahoma. And he has a teaching that is called “Removing the Ceiling” and I believe that this is an answer to prayer because most of you know about the rut you’re in I want us to teach you about that to know about the ceilings in your life but you don’t really know about how to bust through. And I don’t know anyone better than Dave to teach you on this. Dave I was fascinated because at all of the times we’ve known each other and I’ve interviewed you I never knew much about your family background and your mother and father and grandfather. Tell me a bit about that.
Dave: Sid my mother was a periodic alcoholic and she would drink an awful lot. And during those years when oh growing up that I first begin to remember I remember that in the spells when she’d be drunk from say months at a time that sometimes she would bring different men home with her. And I remember many fathers along the way.
Sid: Is it true I know it is but is it true that most of us evaluate God the Father by our earthly father?
Dave: I’m absolutely sure that’s true Sid because the marks those things put on me I really wasn’t able to unseal them until I found out the difference between real worship and the mortification that went. The will worship even after I was born again “I wish I was different.” And when I finally found out how to remove the feeling it was through mortification. In other words I found out how to turn to the Holy Ghost loose on the inside and He’s the one that destroyed the hold that the intimidation and the grief and the hopelessness that I feel at times. Because that not only that father image that I didn’t have but when we moved in with grandpa he took us in and thank God for it but grandpa he didn’t like my father because of what he did to my mother. And so when I would do something that would remind him on my father sometimes he would get so mad that he would scream at me and sometimes he’d kick me so hard that not to hurt you or anything but just to get moving. That he could tell me to get me the hammer off of the table he’d be on a ladder and I would panic and get so afraid I couldn’t see the hammer even if it was the only tool on the table. He’d yell at me until finally he’d just storm down off the ladder to get a move on kind of kick me and say “What’s the matter with you? You’re just like old man Roberson you’re no good and you never will be.” And when I go back now I cry a little bit tears of joy I can assure you now and before I get too far in getting the ceiling off in the last years of my mother’s life. One day I was over on the coast I was in Oregon and I was in Oregon Coast within 200 miles of where I live with a friend evangelist Dudley. Early in the morning God spoke to me “Get back home.” And I ran home drove all the way home that night just in time for my mother to come knocking on the door. She wanted to know everything that I was doing and she was so moved that I was beginning to teach the gospel and that was the last time that I saw her. So I believe that God through our prayers moved on her and saved her in her last days.
Sid: But what was it like when you were told “You’re no good you’re just like your father.” Did you believe that or you just kind of shrugged it off?
Dave: You know what? That even though I didn’t want to believe it it became part of me. See I became so intimidated afraid I guess especially with authority figures.
Sid: Well you had so many different men living with your mother.
Dave: Yes. I’ve spent some of my time with them when they’d come in and drank a lot and I’d beg them to take me fishing you know to do something you know like a father would do. But I didn’t have much luck (Laughing) in that area. But no it and when we moved in with grandpa about the 4th or 5th grade then then when I would do things like that then he’d yell at me “You’re no good, you’re just like old man Roberson.” And by the way he was a PK.
Dave: A preacher’s kid and my grandfather Roberson as I understand a tent evangelist somewhere around Texas. And so he was running PK, preacher’s kid. And so he’d tell me your just like him your no good you’ll never amount to anything. And it carried over with me and Sid the first years I was born again it was in ultra-holiness. And I thank God for the holiness that’s taught from the inner man that takes the outer man over and causes the person to live in such a holiness that the kind that you do look appealing or modestly. But mostly you tend to do …and kindness in the love walk He has for all of us. Now I believe in modes apparel but I believe in that holiness of that inner-man.
Sid: But what affect did the externally holiness have on you?
Dave: Well this is what I thought to myself. Well here I was raised with one fatherhood and a bunch of fathers who didn’t want me and now I’m afraid not to go to church I’m afraid to dress wrong. I’m afraid of everything that if I anger this father that he’s going to do something to me put me in a car wreck or bring a disease or do something. I was literally afraid of Him. So I get born again and thinking well I lost my one father like that and now I get saved and I get another one. But I can still remember I can still remember when I started to pray in tongues and somehow that praying in tongues which He’s very clear about would edify us and build us up on our most holy faith in God above essential walk and through a walk of faith and power with our Father. Little did I know that building me up above a sense dominated real that that would be part of what He would build me up over in my edification. If I can remember praying Sid in my whole life is beginning to change and literally praying those mysteries the mysteries of Christ that is you and to you and through you the hope of glory up before the Father. And Him answering those mysteries and having the mystery of Christ in you to begin to come alive it’s trading my mind for His. In other words I began to take on His mind and began to displace everything that they told me that I was and replace it with a renewed mind in everything that He said that I was. And I could remember that beginning to take place when I went out and begin a revival when I first moved to Tulsa and was preaching with men who I would have paid a $100 just to hold their sweaty old coat in the back room and listen to him talk about God. And now I was sharing the platform with them. And even at that point with my intimidation I could have preached and raised the dead in that service. And Sid I would go into the backroom where those men were and I would fish. You know I would fish for a compliment because to me they were a father figure. And all I would have to do is to get them to say one thing good message “Brother Roberson that was really some miracles out there.” And if I could get them to say one thing like that then I would be okay the intimidation would leave because I knew that I’d done okay. But now Sid now since I’ve found a level of love and that peace and every time I make another level of peace I keep thinking that this is as good as it can get.
Sid: The fact that you were born again, the fact that you were born again, the fact that you were Spirit filled did not get rid of those bondages, those chains.
Sid: And you’re saying that praying in tongues got rid of that?
Dave: Yes it edified and built me up above it by revealing Christ in me. Now if the freedom was automatically there by merit of the baptism of the Holy Spirit alone then every Christian would be free because He’s no respecter of person. Sid so there must be something that we can do that will activate that process of mortification begin to cause the word that we know to come alive in us and bring us from what we were into what He said that we are. And I found that to be the edification that supernatural language of praying in tongues.
Sid: But I have to ask you this I know of a real seeker sensitive church that’s bursting at the seams near where I live.
Sid: And one of the things that they’ve done is the pastors even Spirit Filled but they’ve agreed that we’re not going to have tongues in our church it’s too controversial. What would you say to that pastor?
Dave: Having a very large church and very successful church isn’t very hard Sid. And to me all you have to do is find the level of flesh that people do not want to go beyond and begin to compromise right at that level. Now I know what I’m talking about Tim my associate he managed Rex Humbard and Rex Humbard was at the top. I don’t mean I should say before Rex Humbard retired and is doing what he’s doing now when he was the biggest ministry in the world it was my associate that managed it.
Dave: And when he came aboard with me we started praying and fasting together and we died together, and we died to the world together to the misuse of money together. Not that we was doing it we were just doing what everybody else said almost. But we died to things together. He’s one of the best government gifts in the world and I can be anything I want to be I found out how to do that.
Sid: Boy with all of the handicaps and all of the strikes against you Mishpochah did you hear what Dave Roberson said I want you to be able to say that you have a ceiling over where you are. God wants you to get those rewards at academy rewards night in heaven.
Sid: My guest by way of telephone Joan and Bob Nast. On yesterday’s broadcast we found out that Joan was traveling with the Benny Hinn ministry and some witches showed up and put some curses. And this this is weird when she had the mammogram test a limp just swelled up in her breast all of a sudden after a meeting. And when they took the mammogram in the darkness there actually on the mammogram on the lump it was an exact shape of a witch. Now at one of Benny Hinn meetings Lester Sumrall was there and Benny said “Let’s take up an offering not for our ministry but to help the hungry.” And so Joan and Bob immediately stood up didn’t have the money but they pledge…they had the money but really should not have done it but God told them so they did. They gave $1000 and Lester said “Believe Psalm 41.” Joan what is Psalm 41 say?
Joan: Psalm 41 it says “Blessed are those that are feeding the hungry and take care of the poor God will sustain them in their time of sickness, they will turn their bed of languish around they shall live and shall not die and all nations will call them blessed.”
Sid: So you were ready for surgery on this malignant tumor but before the surgeon who’s Jewish and not a believer in Jesus is allowed to operate on you you say to her “You can’t operate on me unless you read this scripture.” And the surgeon had already remarked and your doctor had said “Boy you don’t seem to have any fear.” So what did the surgeon do?
Joan: Well she promised me that she would read the scripture and Isaiah 53.
Bob: It was like 1 – 15. There was a lot of them it was all of Isaiah 53.
Joan: Or 1 – 12 I forget how many now but any way she promised she would read it and she did. And come to find out in fact this wonderful surgeon her people in her office were Christians they had been Jewish and they had been born again. And they had been praying for her for 10 years. And every time they would mention the Bible she would just refuse to talk to them. After she operated on me with …after I’ll tell you but she called them up and she said “I know I’ve never listened to you before but this woman has made a believer out of me and I am now reading the Bible.” And it was so incredible because of the fate that she had seen. And I believe God opened her spiritual eyes when she read Isaiah 53. But after she operated that took out the tumor. And the following week I went back and they took out the stitches. And at that time her 2 assistants were there and she had to go out of town. And they after I got dressed they kind of closed in on me and I said “What’s the matter why are you doing that?” And they said I said “Well I had cancer you took them out you took them out and now it’s over right?” They said “Well we didn’t get it all we didn’t get a clear margin we believe that the cancer is in your bones, your liver your lungs and your lymph nodes we have to do a mastectomy. I said “Excuse me? Do you know who I am?” And they said “Yeah.” I said “I’m a child of God I have a healing ministry I pray for people I tithe my money, this can’t be true.” And they said “Well, regardless you have cancer and we believe it’s spread all over your body.” And we want to do a mastectomy. And I said “When? They said “Next week.” I said “I’m very sorry I can’t do it next week my husband and I are going with the Benny Hinn to California to going to pray over people that don’t know that Jesus Christ heals today so we’re going to pray over real sick people.” So they already knew I was nuts so they said “Okay” you know and I said “Make it for the following week if that’s what you have to do that’s what we’ll do.” We got on a plane we went out to California we told everybody there and the workers went back and they told Benny Hinn that I had cancer very bad.” And so they called me back in the back room of the arena and Bobby and I went back there.” And Benny got off the couch and started walking towards me and he said “Oh Joanie, Joanie, Joanie” And at that he was about 5’ away from me and all of a sudden the power of God came through that building and slammed my body right to the floor nobody touched me. And when they picked me up I said “Benny God has healed me He’s touched me and I’m scheduled for a mastectomy next Monday a week away what am I going to do?” He said “Joan I’m only a man that brings everybody together to worship the Lord, God will speak to you to give you peace on what to do.” We came home from California; a number of things took place in the next couple of days that which we won’t have time to go into. Anyway on Thursday morning prior to the operation I had total peace, total peace, I had absolutely no fear. The surgeon called me up and said “Come down to my office.” We went down to her office, she said “Joan I’m a cancer specialist I am a breast specialist that’s all I do, I know my work.” She says I went inside your breast and I took out a tumor very very very large and the size of that tumor we didn’t get a clear margin. Everything that pointed to I really believed that was in your bones your livers, your lungs. We just got the reports back early this morning it is not in your bones, your liver your lungs and we do not have to do a mastectomy but we do want to re-operate to get…I’ve got to get in there and get a fair margin for my own satisfaction and take out your lymph nodes. I said “You do whatever you want to do because I’m a child of God and I’m not going any place because God has a plan for me, He has a purpose for me just like every single person on this earth God has a purpose for their life if they’ll just get rid of fear, keep their eyes on Jesus God will get them through whatever attack He’ll get them through.” Long story short I went in on Monday singing as they were taking me into the operating room singing Jesus loves me. In the operating room I was…scriptures were pouring out of my mouth finally got them all laughing those cancer operations. They said “Shut up and put her out she’s driving us nuts.” A little nurse in the corner is saying “Preach it sister preach it.” Well after 5½ hours of going inside my breast she told my husband she couldn’t find a drop of cancer in there they didn’t know what happened to that margin that wasn’t clear. They took out 15 lympth nodes under my arm and they said there was cancer in one and she said to me but that’s like a general factor. I said “No, no Doc you know what that was there for?” I said “You were right it was in my bones, my liver, my lymph nodes but I said “But my God, my Jesus, my Father in heaven He touched me and healed me and He took it but He left it in one lymph node that you could truly see you’re a good doctor you know what you’re doing. I said He just wanted you to know He’s real looking for your good work to do.
Sid: Joan you said that everyone, you started out almost prophesying you said everyone has a purpose. What is your purpose Joan and Bob Nast?
Joan: Our purpose is to bring joy and happiness to the brokenhearted people, and children with cancer, and dreadful disease AIDS. But more than that if we expect miracles God gave us a vision that we saw wheelchairs and stretchers and 100’s of people coming on to this property and God miraculously touching and healing and saving.
Sid: But as children…
Sid: Tell me about the one particular little boy that had cancer in his bone marrow and had 1% chance of survival very quickly.
Bob: This little boy Christopher he came as because he was invited by another family who their daughter has bone marrow cancer and asked if it was okay if he came. And we said of course we’re open for all the sick children. So these people came and they were a little skeptic at first but they could feel the love that was here. And they looked around and they said “Do you do this a lot?” And we say “Yeah.” And you know we made them feel comfortable and we were talking to Christopher and talking to the parents and Joanie was talking to the parents and I found out that they were Catholic and they lived in Tampa. And they told us about the oncology report that he only had 1% chance of survival. Well 2 days before that God had spoken to me and my wife and my daughter at different times and said “Now is the time I’m releasing you to pray over the children.” Because we never had prayed over the children before, I won’t say that we never have but we never made it available to everybody. So God released us to pray for him we were so excited because we were waiting for that. So we said to little Christopher said to the parents we said “Would you mind if we prayed over your son?” And they said “No, not at all.” So we got our people around him and we prayed over him and all of a sudden as we prayed over him he started shaking going to convulsions and the parents looked like shocked and said “What’s going on?” And my wife says Joan says “God is touching him, I believe that God is touching your son and we want to know because we call it a praise report when you hear a good report back.” Well what happened they left and 3 weeks later or 2 weeks later we got a thing on our computer a praise report praise report. Well they said “Do you remember little Christopher we were there such and such a time and they began to tell us that they took him to Sloan Kettering Cancer Institute it was the last resort that they knew to go. They took them they’re and said “What can we do about our son?” And they said “Before we can do anything we have to do tests.” Well they took every test imaginable at Sloan Kettering Hospital and they could not find one bit of cancer in that little boy.
Sid: Well praise God and that’s not the only story but we’re out of time but we’re making the book available for you it’s a booklet “Who Cares For Orphans, Widows, the Oppressed God Does Do We?” It’s a book that’s going to change your life by Dr. Derrick Prince.
Sid: Everyone knows that God doesn’t wink at sin. But most people feel that there’s a certain length of time that they can get with it. And maybe your day of reckoning will come 10 years from today, 20 years from today. But I have a guest that has documented that the exact date the United States as a nation does what God constitutes, and just look at the 10 commandments for starters, what God constitutes as sin the exact day a warning judgment comes and it’s so many times that if more Christians understood that God is a holy God who is looking at everything that we do with a since of love to stop us from getting into areas that will require judgment we wouldn’t dare do the things do. I’m talking about believer’s image what happens to non-believers. I have on the telephone John McTernan, now John wrote a book called “God’s final warning to America.” On October 11, 1987 John McTernan that spent 26 years as a Federal Agent he was with the Internal Security Division of IRS. Something very unusual happened to you on that day John tell me about it.
John: Well Sid I was watching TV and it was the news and it had a story on about a rather large, in fact up until the time the largest homosexual gathering I think possibly in history, took place in Washington DC. And the homosexuals were gathering for their rights and to promote their agenda and I watched it I didn’t know that it was taking place I just picked it up when it was on the news and I turned the news the TV off because it troubled my spirit to watch it so I walked away. At that point Sid I didn’t think of praying, interceding, I didn’t think God would be offended by that. Of course I wasn’t personally happy by it but I forgot about it. And then that week that very week the stock market melted down to, at that time to record levels with the following Monday the big crash in 1987 do you remember that Sid?
Sid: Yes I do I used to be a stock broker with Merrill Lynch so I do keep an eye on the market.
John: Okay well then this is oh about 8 days later and I’m watching the news again and there’s a newscaster on it and he was obviously shaken by this stock market crash his lip was actually quivering. As I was watching him I had this like this flash back it was like a vision Sid and I could see the week before and I could see the TV. I was looking at the TV but I was actually seeing the week before. I saw the homosexual gathering and the news commentator and all of a sudden I heard in my inner man the voice of the Lord saying that this stock market crash was in response to this homosexual march and that I didn’t fear the Lord otherwise I would have interceded. Otherwise the country is naked and open before me in judgment because the fear of Me has been lost. It was as if it was like overwhelming I actually fell prostrate on the ground before the TV and I repented. And if you had asked me on the day before if I feared God I would have said “Oh yes I do I fear God” but I really didn’t Sid and at this point God opened my eyes that we had fallen under His judgment as a nation. And from that day to this I have been documented one instance after another where as you mentioned in the introduction there will be a Supreme Court decision regarding abortion let’s say, and at that very day a hurricane will smash into the country.
Sid: You know that was the thing that was so overwhelming to me in your book John. It’s not like in the same year, it’s not like in the same 6 months, it’s not like in the same month it’s the same day!
John: Yes Sid.
Sid: I don’t think people realize this correlation.
John: And it’s bit 1 Sid it’s like every major…every hurricane since 1989 has fallen on one of those days everyone. All the major earthquakes 6.0 or greater have fallen on those days. Massive tornadoes that sweep up whole small towns are falling on those days. The stock market has gone at one point to all time heights since 1987. And in my book I fully document where each major will say dip in the stock market were to fall 100 points in l day and things like that they’re all around or should say the very day abortion event a national homosexual event or touching the apple of God’s eye which is Israel.
Sid: I want to take you back to October 11th 1987 was this just like an inner sense what you’re describing to me? Did the presence of God come on you? Did He speak to you audibly? Explain I know that you told me what you saw but what did you feel? What did you experience?
John: Sid it was not an external voice it was an internal voice but it was so powerful that I was like overwhelmed by it it was….the voice specifically spoke at me about not fearing “You don’t fear Me” that’s exactly what I heard. “If you feared Me you would have interceded when you saw that march.” And I was sort of like shamed I remember that I was ashamed before the Lord but it was Sid it was like me and God alone it was like time stopped where I was at the time and I was just being…I don’t want to use the word lectured I was being spoken to by the Lord.
Sid: But you know John the Bible says that there’s a judgment day for everyone of us wouldn’t you rather have had your warning on that date so that you could change than when you die and go to judgment day?
John: Absolutely Sid. I mean you I could sense what it was to be in the presence of the Lord and not quite right with Him. And that was what it was Sid and I repented. I mean He didn’t tell me to repent I just realized that I was wrong in my understanding of the Lord and right then and there I fell on the ground and I cried out to Him and said “Lord” it was like pride was exposed to me also. Because it was if you had asked me like the day before if I said the day before if you had come to me and say to me “Do you fear the Lord?” I would have said “Oh yes I fear the Lord definitely.” But when God showed me what the true fear of the Lord was I immediately repented.
Sid: Help me “What is the true fear of the Lord?”
John: Sid it’s real simple the true fear of the Lord is to as we see in the book of Job “To shoo evil to hate evil, to flee evil, to flee sin.” And you mentioned it in the introduction that thinking that you can sin and get away with it and all of that.
Sid: It impossible to watch secular television without witnessing illicit sex, drugs, homosexuality, nudity, pornography, I mean you can’t even watch that. Even if you choose what you’re watching they’ll slip a commercial in.
John: Your right Sid and I watch very very very very little TV I like to watch college football and you watch football and the advertisement will be for some show on and advertisement is exactly as you say. We’ve become …sin is promoted on it now and it’s encouraged and it’s promoted and there’s no fear of God anymore it’s gone.
Sid: What is God trying to tell us by you correlating all of these events of sin and then a judgment coming the same say what is God telling us?
John: God’s telling us a couple of things that’s a very good question. Number 1 the object of the book and what I believe that God’s showing me and showing the nation He’s holy and that God’s holy and that He’s not winking at sin. And #2 we’re to truly fear him over sin when we see homosexuals like gay pride day the church should fear the Lord over that and intercede before Him for our nation and that His word is real Sid. God’s word is authority it’s real. When He says in His word that He’s going to judge and destroy nations over the very sin that America’s doing. And as you said already precisely on these days and we see the hurricanes hitting and these stock market crashes and all of these combined it’s a warning that we’re on a collision course with God. And what He says in His word He’s going to do.
Sid: John give me one specific sin and what the judgment was pick one out of the large numbers of events that you have in your book.
John: Okay the centerpiece of the book is June 28, 1992 that was Gay Pride Day. And on June 28 and Gay Pride Day let me just explain to your listeners is the last Sunday in June and it’s been going on since about 1970. It started the late ‘60s early 70’s and its most of the major cities in the nation celebrate it New York celebrates Gay Pride Day, Boston, Chicago, Los Angles, San Francisco and Atlanta and there are other cities too. And the homosexual march and their supporters come out and very rude things happen. I have seen oh boy horrible things Sid oh boy I’ve seen a Gay Pride Day in San Francisco where it was the real thing and it wasn’t edited for the news of TV and it was so vulgar I wouldn’t dare repeat on the telephone what I saw with my eyes taking place. So any way on this day June 28, 1992 it was Gay Pride Day 2 massive earthquakes in southern California. One was 7.6 on the rector scale and the other was 6.5 on the rector scale. And the big one was called Landers Quake and in fact when you read the newspapers count the accounts of the earthquake in the Los Angeles Times the front page is “Gay Pride Day and the Earthquake and that’s all that’s on the first page.
Sid: We’re out of time.