Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Dr. Tedd Tripp, Pastor of Grace Fellowship Church in Hazelton, Pennsylvania. I’ve got a copy of his book “Shepherding a Child’s Heart.” And the thing that makes this so different than most books that are written for parents on how to raise their children it’s not based on psychology it’s based on how to have a genuine heart change. And Ted you said something very difficult on yesterday’s broadcast. I poised the question to you television it seems it’s either New Age, or its violence, or its sex. One of those 3 things come through in almost everything and violence is the strongest and kids are taking karate lessons and their taught how to defend themselves and don’t let anyone bully you. And you said the total opposite give me an example.
Tedd: Well the word of God says that “We overcome evil with good do not be overcome with evil friends but overcome evil with good” Roman’s 12. My son he was about 18 he had an automobile accident one night and another boy about his age that lives not too far from us was involved in the accident as well. A few days later my son was swimming at a swimming hole, we have a waterfalls near our home and kids go down their swimming and he was swimming with some friends and this young man came up to him and he said “Are you Aaron Tripp and my son said “Yes I am.” And he said “Okay this is for my car, he hauled off and he slugged him in the jaw and knocked him backwards off of some rocks into the water.” And my son got out and the other people that were with him they were ready to have a rumble you know and they’re going to run to his defense and you know “We don’t have to take this and so forth.” And he said “No” he said “We’re going to leave and we’ll trust God with this but we’re not going to overcome evil with evil” and they left.
Sid: Now that is very difficult to do!
Tedd: That takes more courage than it does to have a fight. And it takes more faith than it does to have a fight. It doesn’t take grace to knock someone’s block off but to overcome evil with good it takes grace and it takes faith. Well one of the girls that was there that day there was some fellows and girls in this gang of kids who had gone swimming with Aaron and one of the girls that was there she was just overwhelmed with it. And many subsequent conversations she had with my daughter I think God really worked in her through that experience she had just never seen anyone respond in that way before.
Sid: Picture speaks more than a 1000 words to just see it happen rather than just read it in a test tube. When you heard that story that had to excite you as a father.
Tedd: Yes it really did I was thrilled that where the rubber meets the road as a young man who is 18 or so at the time he had made that choice because it was obviously his choice it wasn’t a choice that I participated in. And it was a choice that reflected his own growing conviction that he can live a life of faith and trust God and do what was right.
Sid: Why is it that children have such a great problem communicating with adults are the protecting themselves, are they hiding their heart or what are they doing? And then when they grow up they still have this problem of opening up and communicating.
Tedd: Sure. Well I think…you know I think Sid that we misunderstand communication. If you ask most people what about their communication ability “Are you a good communicator?” They immediately think of their ability to express their ideas. And I would submit to you in a biblical vision the finest art of communication is not the ability to express our ideas but the ability to understand the thoughts an ideas of the other person. For parents it’s the ability to understand the thoughts and the ideas of our children. Proverbs 18:2 speaks to this with such power it says “A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions.” Now think about that, where foes a fool find pleasure? He doesn’t find pleasure in understanding the other person he finds pleasure in airing his own opinion. And you know I’ve got to ask myself “Well, how many times have I’d been fooled in conversations with my kids?” I remember one night I went down to talk with one of children it was bed time and I went to his room and I said “I want to talk to you.” And I spoke to him I didn’t say anything cruel or abusive I had something on my chest that I wanted to get off my chest and got done talking and I said “Now I’m glad we had this chance to talk together; I’m going to pray for you and I’m going to go to bed.” So I prayed for him and I went to bed a few minutes later he’s knocking at the door “Dad are you up?” “Yeah, what’s up?” He said “Dad I just want to say when you left the room you said that you were glad that we had a good talk and I just want to say dad that I didn’t say anything.” And I said “Oh my forgive me your right I had a good talk.”
Tedd: He said “Yeah sort of.” “Well if you were going to say something what would you have said to me?” And he said to me this is a vintage teenager he said “I don’t know it doesn’t matter now I just want to say I didn’t say anything.” And the sub-texture is “I’m not going to be that easy dad you’re going to have to draw this out.”
Tedd: But you know that’s what the Proverbs are talking about sometimes teenagers don’t talk because parents are only interesting to speaking at their kids they’re not interested in drawing their kids out. Another Proverb “He who answers before listening that’s his folly and his shame” well, how many times do we do that as parents I know what you’re going to ask the answer is “No.” “But dad I didn’t even have a chance to ask my question.” “You don’t have to ask your question I know everything.”
Sid: It’s a gr…that is a great way to damage their heart.
Tedd: Oh for sure and you know what this kid walks away feeling is “I can’t get to first base with you; you don’t even want to give me a hearing, you snapped out your no before you ever even understood what I was going to ask.” And he doesn’t walk away thinking “Boy I’m glad my dad’s a mind reader.” He walks away thinking “You know I can’t talk to this man.” And I’m telling him “You know you can’t talk to me.” Then when I want him to talk he doesn’t have anything to say “Well?” You know this is what I’ve done.” Your know Proverbs 20 verse 5 says “For the purposes of a man’s heart are deep waters but a man of understanding draws them out.” You know that’s what we need to be we need to people of understanding to know how to draw out those deep waters in our children. And you know I talk to parents and I talk about this in seminars and one of the illustrations I use is “You know that this is really what Christ does in the incarnation.” Because in the incarnation Christ comes and He dwells with us, He lives in a body like ours, He has a human psychology on this earth. He’s tired and hungry at Jacobs well at John 4 and He weeps at Lazarus tomb in John chapter 10. He experiences life on this earth, He looks at the world though our eyes He understands what it means to be touched with the feelings of our infirmities and so He’s able to help us. And that’s the whole note of Hebrews 4 “We don’t have a High Priest that’s unable to sympathize but we have one that is tempted at every point like we are without sin and therefore we can approach His throne of grace with confidence and find mercy and grace and help in our time of need.” And that’s really what we need to do with our kids; we need to be people who can enter into their world who can understand their struggles and who because we understand can speak truth to them in the ways that they need to hear it in order to really grow.
Sid: How else are we going to get our children to trust us if we don’t listen to them?
Kyle: You’re exactly right and see what happens is our bits of advice and which may even be good advice they misfire because we haven’t really gained a hearing with our kids. Let me give you a real quick illustration I’ll try to make it quick. You go shopping with your kids you’re out to buy shoes alright he’s trying to find a pair of shoes he likes and your saying “What’s the matter with those those are really sharp I like those why don’t you get those.” And you try to talk him into the pair you can afford. So your back home the next day and he’s putting the shoes on that he didn’t like the night before he’s on his way to school he’s crying about these shoes. Now if want to delight in airing your own opinion you can have a conversation like this you can say “Look I know you didn’t like those shoes but those are the only ones I could afford.” But what would your friend Job say if I told him you were crying over your shoes don’t be such a wimp you know what are those kids there are they shoe experts or something don’t worry about what they think of your shoes; you know those shoes you don’t like cost more than my first car I have more important things to do than worry about these shoes; I’ve got to go out and earn some money to buy more shoes no one around here likes.” Now I have communicated right.
Kyle: But really what I’ve done is I’ve iced myself out. The problem doesn’t go away now I simply had told this child “I don’t want to hear it, shut up and wear the shoes you know I don’t want to enter into your problem.” Now the problem doesn’t go away I’m just not going to be part of it, not going to be part of the solution. But see if I want to have, if I want to delight in understanding I could have a conversation like this. I could say “You’re upset about the shoes aren’t you?” “Yeah.” “I didn’t think you like them when we got them last night but you didn’t want to tell me did you?” “No.” “What didn’t you like about them?” “They look stupid.” “I don’t know what you mean.” “Joe said I look like a dweeb.” When did Joe see them we just got them last night.” Chris got a pair like this and Joe made fun at him last week, yesterday and told him he looked like a dweeb. “What looks dweeby about those shoes?” “You know the red stripe up the back Dad there’s last years shoes that’s why they were only $89.”
Kyle: Now what are you learning here valuable stuff?” So I considered this kid “Yeah you’re upset.” You know their going to make fun of me and I don’t want my shoes to look like I know that they are going to make fun of me today.” Now in this kids world that problem is the biggest thing in his world at this moment.
Sid: Tedd I’m sorry we’re out of time. Are many households significantly changed when they practice these principals?
Kyle: I have a pile of letters where parents say “Our lives have been changed.”
Sid: Oops we’re out of time.
Sid: Hello this is Sid Roth and I am mashuga that’s a Hebrew word it means crazy I am mashuga for Yeshua. And some of you that are laughing at me you’re mashuga for something I want to be mashuga for Yeshua for Jesus. Now my guest Perry Stone he’s another one that’s mashuga for Yeshua but I can’t wait to interview Perry because as you know he’s a real student of the word. And he has studied over…the Bible over 100,000 hours and as a result of that study and being a man of the Spirit he has come up with the most important revelation in the history of his ministry. And we’re going to be talking about a lot of them and you see what he does he studies cycles that are repetitive in the Bible. And when you understand these cycles it gives you keys for understanding the future. But Perry I understand you had a vision of the last days of something that’s about ready to happen a warning dream if you will tell me about it.
Perry: Well there was 2… recently and I’ll talk about more recently because the one you’re talking about was previously sometime back. I’m having an experience at night it’s happening once every 2 weeks of seeing tsunamis very very high waves coming over especially there is a city and I’m not sure if it’s on our east coast or our west coast or where it is. And I do believe one of them affects the United States however, and so having said that I’ll go through this real brief. I was in…
Sid: But wait I have to ask you this I’m always looking for other meanings as you are to. When I hear a tsunami could it not it’ll be devastating but could it not also be a tsunamis of the Holy Spirit?
Perry: Well you know because the Bible uses the metaphor of water pouring out the Spirit in the last days you do have to when you have certain visions or dreams have to look at the interpretation of the symbolism as well. What I try to distinguish is how much symbolism was actually in the vision or dream like serpents or water or sheep or lamb or wheat or fruit trees verses does it appear to be more literal. Now in the second one the second one I’m going to tell you about which is the main one this was very literal. We were in a city I don’t exactly know where it was I did see a sign but I’m very careful not to name it because when I do this people call us and people begin to panic and they begin to say “Should I move or whatever.” And people just have to pray and know the mind of God God will direct His people. My wife and I were in an apartment overlooking a city and we noticed over top of the city there were dark clouds beginning to form. And I told her “Get everyone inside the building for security purposes I feel like something’s about to happen.” I then turned to a glass window this is a double story building and this was very clear I could see it just like it were yesterday. And I looked toward the water and I noticed that there was a sign that this bridge was affecting a city on the east coast which it is somewhere on the east coast. And suddenly the strangest thing I saw a wave just come out of this water and it washed over the bridge and I saw the bridge begin to fall and the most bazaar part Sid was I saw the shadow of the Twin Towers come up out of the water not the towers themselves but a ghostly looking shadow that came up out of the water which made me wonder was this event caused by a terrorist attack? Was it caused by a sleeper cell or terrorist attack that was somehow going to affect this particular area of the country? And I remember the wave came in the wave was taking a 2 story buildings that was on the water shore that was not far from this bridge. And I did a little bit of research later and found out that this area is connected by bridges there is a lot of bridges in the area. There’s never been an actual warning of a natural tsunamis in that area but we know how those were also caused they’re caused by an earthquake an underwater earthquake and as it happened in Indonesia or it happened in Japan. But I’m really sensing and I don’t want to get sidetracked here on something but when we go back and look at Genesis chapter 19 at the incident that happened at the 5 cities at the plain Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim, and how sudden destruction came to those cities because the first covenant that God ever established as you know is the covenant of a man and a woman. God cut Adams rib in order to produce Eve, and the very first major commandment God gave was “Be fruitful and multiply.” So the first covenant was a man and woman, the first commandment covenant that is “Be fruitful and multiply.” And we see the entire society now contradicting that and passing and I call it passing laws that are abomination before God. We know that if that type of thing happens and it continues to happen that God has to permit the same type of judgments to happen to America or whatever country they might be involved with the same type of issue as it would be with Sodom and Gomorrah. And someone asked me the other day which I thought was a good question they said “Perry why do you think that America comes under a selective judgment faster than a nation that doesn’t know the Bible?” And I said “Where little is known little is required; but where much is known much is required.” We have been a nation of the Bible, a nation of the covenant a nation that is founded is a fact by early fathers who did believe in Christ. Not all of them were not necessarily Christians there was a few deist or a few other beliefs there but majority were Christians and they established this land in covenant with the Almighty they believe God divinely raised it up. So if we take the covenant of our ancestors, and this is a phrase used in the book of Leviticus the covenant of the ancestors; and we begin to do things shedding of innocent blood is one in Matthew 23 talks about that the warning why Jerusalem was destroyed was because of the shedding of innocent blood and the other issue is the covenant of what we call marriage the man and woman and if we begin to contradict that and say “God you really don’t know what You’re talking about and we’re in a different time and culture and we’re going to do our thing.” It positions the entire nation into a situation of seeing some very horrendous things happen in the future. And it’s real odd Sid because there’s 2 paths that we’re on one path is a outpouring of the Spirit, gospel being preached, revival path and it fabulous the greatest outpouring of the Holy Spirit. We’re having conferences here in Cleveland with 4 to 6000 young people with 500 at one time being baptized in the Holy Spirit it’s the most phenomenal thing I’ve seen in my life time. The other side of the track almost running parallel with this is the, I call it “The days of Lot and the days of Noah track” where the signs of the days of Lot and the days of Noah are being fulfilled in front of our very eyes. And one track is very negative and the other track is very positive and depending on how an individual’s relationship is with God and the covenant that they have with God if you have a covenant you can be on that positive track headed to the kingdom. If you don’t have a covenant relationship with God you’re on the days of Lot and the days of Noah track in the sense of that was the track that saw 2 of the greatest judgments of their time. One was the universal flood and the other was of course the destruction of 4 out of 5 cities there near the Dead Sea and the southern part of Israel. And so I’m seeing that something is up, something is going to happen and it does concern me but at the same time I do know God is very much in charge and God’s people have to keep faith in their heart. You know the most troubling parable to me Sid is that one in Luke where the woman goes before the judge and keeps asking for the judge to avenge her and then Jesus said “Shall not God avenge His elected cry day and night to Him.” And then the last part of that says “When the Son of man comes shall He find faith on the earth?” And the implication there is that people’s faith can become weak at the very time of the end and they could become like Lot’s wife and look back as the greatest deliverance that’s ever happened the return of the Messiah is taking place.
Sid: Perry I have to ask you a question and I’m sure others have asked you this “Why do you teach so much about Israel and Jewish roots?”
Perry: The real reason I believe for this is number 1 is in my earlier ministry which began in 1979 up to about 1984. I basically taught faith, the Holy Spirit baptism. Of course I was an evangelist having revivals that would go 3 or 4 weeks in most churches where we would go. My first trip to Israel totally altered and transformed me and I know that you go to Israel and people really need to take a trip with you because you are so transformed in your knowledge it’s not just seeing the place it’s the knowledge. I realized when I went there #1 is I didn’t know as much as I thought having been raised in a church I didn’t know as much as I thought. Then I saw the prophetic element and when I saw the prophetic element I came to this realization I came back and realized went back into what I called the First Covenant or people call it the Old Testament. But I went back to the prophets and I began to realize that everything that they predicted about the time of the end is somehow linked to Israel, it’s linked to Jerusalem. For example Zachariah chapters 12 though 14 is totally linked to Jerusalem; it’s linked to God building up Jerusalem, Psalms 102 verse 16 “When the Lord builds up Zion then He will appear in His glory.” And I began to look at these scripture and I began to realize okay Israel, Jerusalem, the return of the Jewish people, the blessing that’s going to come upon the land all of this happens really before the Messiah returns. It set up the process begins before he sets up His Kingdom on earth. And that’s when I thought “Hey we’re missing something here.” Being raised a 4th generation minster in a more traditional full gospel church we basically taught either from the 4 gospels or the 4 books of Acts in a Sunday morning message. And then we come into the Epistles and taught the guidelines of living but what was missing when I grew up and I’m talking about my father was a great man of God and a great pastor and a great preacher but he admitted later “Perry I never understood the prophetic aspect because when we came up, and Israel became a nation in 1948, and the 6 Day War took place in ’67 we knew that it was significant but we didn’t have the knowledge to put it together. And Sid he said something to me that I’ll never forget I said “Dad why do you think that your generation didn’t quite understand the prophetic part of this?” And here’s what He said to me he said “Son because my generation was not the last generation.” When the last generation comes the final generation before the Messiah returns that’s the generation that will have the clear total understanding but like God said to Daniel “Seal the book until the time at the end then many will run to and fro…”
Sid: So that begs the question are we in the final generation?
Perry: With all of my heart especially with what you see in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Israel, Lebanon, what you see taking in the northern part of Africa, the situation with the EU, the situation with America I honestly believe Sid you know you’ve got the blood moon issue which are definitely prophetic cycles which are definitely taken place the lunar eclipses I believe we are really and truly in the time of the end. For me to sit here and say “How many years is that, how many months is that” I stay clear of that despite the fact I do a lot of research on cycles and patterns. I do believe however that the great revival, and you’re experiencing some of that yourself when you have gone to Israel. The great revival among the Hebrew people. And not only that there’s this really amazing visitation of God with visions and dreams among the Muslim people all over the world. That type of thing is indicating to me that the gospel is getting to the nations and that’s what’s going to have to happen to bring in the kingdom to the earth where Messiah can come to Jerusalem to rule for that thousand years that John talked about in Revelation 20. So I really do believe that we are in that time called the time of the end. And honestly Sid it’s about the most exciting time to live right now; you and I couldn’t have picked a better time. I mean you and I could not have picked it but you know our parents did I guess.
Sid: No, no God chose us to be here I believe we are created our DNA…Perry Stone your DNA was created from heaven to be able to do what you’re doing. Tell me…but my producer told me that I really got to find out about this Rabbi Samuel; tell me about him.
Perry: This is intriguing, a Rabbi Eudemon Samuel was a Greensburg German Hasidic Rabbi in born about the year 1217 but he made these amazing predictions about Jerusalem and the coming Messiah. A little background in his day at age 55 he wrote 2 books. Now one of them has been lost and the other one I remember my Jewish guide showed me this book way back in the ‘80s but it was in Hebrew. The time frame that he was dealing with was 1096 to about 1270. And this was before what was known back then as the crusaders lost Palestine, of course I’m using old terms here the Rabbi would have used back then to the Muslims in about 1291. And this was his exact quote okay it says “When the Ottoman Turks conquered Jerusalem they would rule over Jerusalem for 8 Jubilees; afterwards Jerusalem will become a no man’s land for one Jubilee and then in the 9th Jubilee it will once again come back into procession of the Jewish nation. They will signify which would signify the beginning of the Messianic end time.” So quick let me run through this in Leviticus 25 a Jubilee is 7 times 7 years or 49 years with a 50th year itself be the Jubilee the Jubilee is every technically every 50 years is the great Shabbat in other words. Alright now when the Rabbi gave this description about the Ottoman Turks 300 years later after he wrote this in the year 1517 the Turks took Palestine and the city of Jerusalem and several years later they started rebuilding the walls and you know this you’ve been to Israel enough those crusaders castle looking walls in Jerusalem were actually built by the Turks they weren’t built by Herod the Great. And so they start rebuilding the walls of Jerusalem. Now this Rabbi…imagine this now I mean this is like in the 13 centuries writing this he said “There’s going to be 8 Jubilees, so 50 times 8.” Fifty is a Jubilee multiplied 8 times or 400 years that is exact time the Turks had Jerusalem from 1517 to 1917 exactly 400 years which is 8 Jubilees. Then his next prediction is this alright in the 9th Jubilee it will once again go back into the hands as a Jewish nation. So 1917 let’s go ahead 50 years which is the next Jubilee which is 1967 during the 6 Day War Jerusalem was reunited it became the Capitol of Israel at the end of the 9th Jubilee based on his timing, based on Rabbi Ben Samuels timing. That was a period of 50 years there’s a Jubilee. Then he says this and this is what’s so exciting to me he’s been so right on these other predictions. He says “In the 10th Jubilee would fall from 1967 to the year 2017. From the 9th to the 10th Jubilee will be the Messianic era the timeframe of the Messiah. So when you look at this to me it’s very exciting because you know a person can make prediction after prediction if they missed it at some point it kind of messes up with the rest of their prediction. He’s hit it on the head with these Jubilee cycles. And you know from a rabbinical thought Biblical numbers mean things; first 6 is man; 7 is perfection; 8 is new beginnings; 5 is the number of grace. But when you look at the Jubilee cycles there are entire books that were found at Qumran. Entire scrolls called the Book of Jubilees where the writer put everything in Israel’s history on Jubilee cycles. And the there is definitely without a doubt patterns to be found in the Jubilee so if the Rabbis previous predictions have proven so correct. Part 1 the 8 Jubilees, Second part the 9th Jubilee. And this 3rd part would be 10the Jubilee from 1967 to 2007 that means we are now for the next 7 years are entering into what’s called the Messianic Era where the emphasis is going to be on the Jewish Messiah. And it’s going to be on our Yeshua the one that we love and He is going to manifest His presence, He is going to manifest His visions, His dreams to people and we are going to see the greatest understanding of who Jesus is. Your know Sid the whole battle…
Sid: I’ll tell you what hold that thought Perry.
SID: I’m pretty overwhelmed of the concepts that God is downloading to David Herzog, this whole concept of appealing to the Court of Heaven. How did that start in your life?
DAVID: Yeah, it started when I was in a meeting and there was a boy there. There had been great miracles and the mother was crying, and I said, “Why are you crying?” She said, “My son here is going to go to jail for many, many years. Tuesday is the court case.” “What did he do?” “Well, he did something really bad on the Internet involving pornography but on the level that would put him in jail for many, many years, and they have all the evidence. They have his computer.” I asked the boy, “Is that true?” He said, “Yeah, I messed up.” He got saved, he repented. And then I said, “Let’s go to the Judge of Heaven and Earth before you got to the earthly judge and present your case to him.” And we did that, went through the protocol. He repented. He had a call on his life for ministry. We presented our case and I felt I heard the Judge say, “It is finished. He’s forgiven.” And he goes to the court on Tuesday.
Judge: You know you’re going to go to jail for a long time because of all the evidence we have against you.
DAVID: He said, “Even if I go to jail I want God to use me. I’m just happy, I’m saved, I’m free.” The judge and the lawyer threw the case out when he heard his testimony.
Judge: This case is closed.
DAVID: And so actually as it was in Heaven, it mimicked on Earth. He didn’t deserve it, but neither do any of us.
SID: So that’s where you first got this revelation. Now you say repentance is very key to this. Explain.
DAVID: Yeah. So when you go to the Court of Heaven for anything, let’s say finances or health, or anything that it seems like it’s not working, in the natural you take it to court. If something is not working to get things done sometimes you got to go to court. So you go to, you got to go to God as the judge, not just as the healer for healing. When you need justice you got to go to the judge. And so that’s how I started understanding it, wow, there’s got to be a judge in Heaven if there’s one on Earth, on Earth as it is in Heaven. And that’s kind of how it started happening. And in my own life I would start praying, and I would take things to the Court of Heaven, not just to Heaven. A financial situation for someone who owed me a huge amount of money, decided not to pay it from overseas. And two days later, all this money was wired back. He had an emergency business meeting and the money came back. While I was in Russia, I was detained because of the books in Russia I had. And my wife reminded, Stephanie reminded me, she said, “Honey, let’s go to the court of Heaven.” We did it while we were in a detention type place, and five minutes later after being held for a while, they said, “You can go.” And I said, “Why did you detain us?” They go, “Don’t ask, just go.”
SID: You know what I love about David is that God downloads these revelations. He then experiments with himself and his family with these revelations then he teaches to others, and people are getting amazing answers to prayer. Now one of the importances of repentance is because of the accuser of the brethren. Explain.
DAVID: Yes. So when you go to the Court of Heaven, a lot of times a little voice comes in your ear and says, well you’re not perfect. You did this or you said that. And a lot of times you say, yeah, oh that’s right, I can’t pray. That’s the accuser of the brethren accusing you so you don’t feel you have boldness to go to the Throne. But the judge in the court will say, sorry devil, that evidence is not remissible in this court because it’s already been repented of. So when repentant of sin, it’s not just something that God forgives you only, but also so you have authority in the Courtroom of Heaven to get your prayers answered.
SID: You have a great, great love for new agers and you were recently in a store with a new ager, and you had quite an encounter. Tell me about that.
DAVID: Yeah. Well the reason I love them is they’re looking for love, joy, peace, but just in the wrong places, but they’re sincere. Many of them are really sincere. So I go in this and this lady is really nice, and she knows me. I go there to get a sandwich or something, or a salad, or a raw food place. She goes, “Where have you been?”
Woman: So where have you been? I haven’t seen you.
DAVID: I was in Peru. We opened a blind eye.
Woman: Oh. So did you learn all the mystical things of that country?
DAVID: No, people came to our meetings. How was your week?
Woman: Good. I levitated off the ground yesterday, a few inches.
DAVID: How did you do that?
Woman: Well I invited 3000 Buddhas in me.
DAVID: They weren’t Buddhas. They were demons.
Woman: No. They were Buddhas.
DAVID: Did they look Chinese with little bellies?
Woman: No, they were actually ugly and skinny.
DAVID: They’re demons. And then she said, “Well I was very uncomfortable when I was levitating.” I said, “I would be, too, if I had 3000 demons inside me. And then she came back down, she said, off the ground, and then she said that Jesus appeared to her.
Woman: When I came back off the ground, Jesus appeared to me.
DAVID: Isn’t Jesus great? He rose from the dead.
Woman: I know. I did, too.
DAVID: You rose from the dead? She clinically was dead in the hospital. She said Jesus appeared to her, she rose from the dead, but no one shared the Gospel with her, so she was kind of searching in new age and psychic stuff. Nice lady. I said, “Then what happened?”
Woman: And I got to this place called the Kingdom of Heaven. Have you heard of it? But I wasn’t allowed in. There was this loud voice and this big bright light, and it said, “No man comes to the Father but through me.”
DAVID: I said, “I can tell you what’s going on.” I said, “You have all these other lovers, these other boyfriends, different, which is false gods, Hinduism, Buddhism, new age, and He’s the one who saved you. He’s the one who rose you from the dead. He is the one that can save your soul and he’s not going to stop pursuing you. He’s a jealous God. He wants only you for Himself.” And she started crying, and I got to pray with her and lead her to the Lord.
SID: You said something so fascinating to me. You said that when you were in France you were having a hard time reaching the people, and God spoke to you and told you to go to Israel.
SID: And then your ministry really opened up in France. Why going to Israel? Why not go to New York City?
DAVID: Yeah. I was in France. It was really hard. I was in France, less than one percent Christian. I was there 12 years and the first few months I was there nothing was working. So I fasted and prayed for three days and said, “God, what am I doing wrong?” He said, “Do what Paul did. Paul went to the Jew first,” though he was called to the Gentiles in Europe. That’s the Roman Empire. I said, “Okay, how do I do that?” He goes, “Just do what I tell you.” I said, “What do you want me to do?” “Go to Israel.” So I said, “Go to Israel? Why would I go to Israel when I’m in France? I just got here. I have no money.” He goes, “Sell your car.” Sold my car for the exact amount of money the trip cost, joined our tour team from our Bible school, led 32 people to the Lord. And when I got back to France we were in five years of non-stop revival, ending in a six-month revival, was the longest revival in 50 years in one church in Paris. It was just, the Lord told me, “If you touch Israel and touch the Jewish people first he’ll bring the Gentile harvest.”
SID: That’s such an amazing truth. So few realize this, you would reach more Gentiles by reaching to the Jew first than by going to the Gentile first. It’s called the spiritual law of evangelism. When we come back I’m going to have David give you a revelation of how you can get the blessings your ancestors were robbed of, when we come back.
SID: I tell you what, I need a miracle. This atmosphere of Heaven affects everything in your life, everything. If you can operate in that atmosphere, for instance, tell me about how the atmosphere Heaven affects ideas.
JOSHUA: We were in Singapore several years ago and I saw God releasing packages upon people, giving gifts. And they were coming down in just little tiny presents upon people. And in that atmosphere I asked people to lift up their hands and just receive what God was doing. Well there was a businessman from California who owned a bakery and he began to receive these gifts from Heaven. And as he was receiving them, God began to give him a download, literally a blueprint for the plan that he needed to follow in his business in order to do a gourmet line of pastries, gave him the whole detail how to roll it how, how to make it functional, and God blessed it. And I ended up getting pastries on my doorstop for quite a while after that because God blessed him such a wonderful way.
SID: But it is amazing when you do things God’s way how you prosper. For instance, did you know you could be in the atmosphere of Heaven for evangelism. Joshua and I both had good friends that are in Heaven now, the Happy Hunters. And I never knew this, but they had a visitation from an angel telling people…
SID: To teach people the simplest, easy way, easiest way, I personally had ever seen for evangelism. Tell me what this angel instructed them.
JOSHUA: This angel came to Francis as she was sitting in a restaurant, and said, “Would you like a new tool for sewing?” And of course, Francis was very excited to receive it. At that time she didn’t realize it was an angel. She thought it was just a man in the restaurant. So she said, “Yes, I’d like it.” And he said, “Okay, I’ll tell you how to do it.” And so he instructed her. And then, and she said, “Wow, that’s amazing. I never heard anything like that.” And he said, “Let me do it. I’ll show you how this works.” And she said, “No, no, no, let me do it because you’ve told me how to do it.”
SID: That sounds like Francis.
JOSHUA: It was Francis. I mean, she was just a go-getter. And the waitress came to the table, and Francis asked the waitress and said, “Did you realize that there’s only two kinds of waitresses that work at this restaurant, those who are saved and those who are about to be. Which one are you?” And the next thing Francis knew this waitress was crying, tears just coming out of her eyes, tears streaming down her eyes. She said, “I need to be saved. I’m about to be saved.” And when she said that, Francis just led her in the sinner’s prayer, and she accepted the Lord. And Francis said that she had to go back behind the scenes for at least ten minutes to kind of get herself together before she could even come back out again, because God had done such a transforming work in her life.
SID: This is the difference between life and death. This is the difference between living and just living the way you are, living in the oxygen of Heaven. If you like things the way they are, then don’t say this prayer. But you know, a very wise man said, if you keep doing the same things, the same way and expect different results, you’re meshuga, you’re crazy. Say this prayer with me: Dear God, please forgive me of all of my sins. I’m so sorry. I believe the blood of Jesus washes away my sins and I’m clean. And now that I’m clean I make Jesus my Messiah and Lord. Amen. Joshua, get to the piano right now and I want you to play supernatural music. And that you that said that prayer, I want you to know what God says: Though your sins be a scarlet they’re as white as snow and you are righteous. And get ready for the simple supernatural through Joshua’s music.
JOSHUA: [singing] The Glory Realm, the realm of eternity, the realm of the heavenlies, the Glory realm. [talking] I want you to lift up your hands with the Glory [singing] what’s here now. The Glory Realm, the realm that the angels sing, the realm of our Heavenly King, it’s the Realm of God. It’s the Realm of God, yeah, yeah. What’s the Realm? It’s the Realm of God. It’s the Realm and I want to live, I want to dwell in this realm forever. And I want to be in the secret place just to see your face. And I want to live, I want to dwell in this realm forever, worshiping you in the secret place, in the secret. I want to stand in the secret, to stand in the Glory, stand in the secret place, stand in the Glory and receive what God is doing, how he’s moving, what he’s really saying. Just receive what God is doing, how he’s moving, what he’s really saying. Just receive, just receive it. Whoa…
SID: Rabbi Schneider, how might demons manifest themselves to people and in what ways, and some, I understand, they think it’s themselves and it’s really not.
RABBI SCHNEIDER: Absolutely. That is such a key for us to realize that many of the problems that we’re dealing with, things like fear, sadness, anger, addiction, these are not just natural problems. These are supernatural problems and that’s one of the keys to getting deliverance over darkness is to recognize that many of the thoughts that we have that cause defeat and torment in one’s life are not originating from within, they’re originating from the outside. I like to describe a demon as a personal evil with intelligence that seeks to occupy space, either space in our mind so that it’s affecting our thought life, or even space in our body. And when someone is walking around let’s say depressed all the time, they have to realize that God is happy. So if God is happy and they’re depressed, where is the depression coming from? And although often times there are some natural reasons, what happens is, is that demons connect to personal vulnerabilities, personal weaknesses in our own life and they make a natural problem a supernatural problem that requires a supernatural solution and a supernatural activation to break it off.
SID: Will demons just leave on their own if you do nothing about it?
RABBI SCHNEIDER: Absolutely not. Demons are intruders and they will not leave on their own. Sid, I think about a dream that I had not too long ago and in this dream I was living in this really dilapidated house. It was really small, you know, maybe like a 15 by 15-foot room. It was old. It was kind of falling apart. You could feel the atmosphere in there. It was dark and depressing and I was sad in that space. And then 20 yards away from me, from this dilapidated house I was living in, I could see another house and this other house was like a 3000-square foot home, it was brand new, it was contemporary, it was clean, it was attractive. It had a light happy feeling to it. And in the dream, Sid, I knew that that beautiful house was mine and yet here I was living in this dilapidated space. Then I realized, why was I living in this dilapidated space when that beautiful home 20 yards away was mine that I could be living in. And of course, houses represent a place that we live. And I realized as the dream continued that the reason I was not taking possession of the beautiful house is because there were demons living in the home. I could see the demons in the dream. They were in the form of human beings, but I could see by the energy that these human beings were giving off that were in my house, violent, hateful, intense energy. Because those demons were in the home as squatters, they didn’t have a right to be there and they weren’t going to leave on their own, I realized that my fear of going into that house and taking occupancy of it was what was keeping me from living in that space. Eventually I got so sick and tired of living in that dilapidated small depressed space, I made up my mind I was going to take possession of that beautiful home that the Lord gave me. So in the dream, Sid, I went to that beautiful house, again 20 yards away, I stood outside the door and I waited for the head demon to come out.
Male voice: This house is mine. No demon can stop you from taking possession of this house.
RABBI SCHNEIDER: When he came out I took a hold of him, threw him on the ground and I just started on him, ramming my fist in his face, and at first, it seemed like nothing was happening. I felt totally impotent, powerless, but I was so committed to getting free, so tired of being sick and tired, I just kept punching. And all of a sudden, all the air went out from him and he was gone, and I was able to take possession of my home. But I had to confront him and make him leave. He wasn’t going to leave on his own.
SID: There are ways that most are ignorant of. Yet these demons try to occupy our homes. What are some of the openings that we have that we may not even be aware of?
RABBI SCHNEIDER: Yes, in other words, how can they gain entrance?
RABBI SCHNEIDER: And things for example, like unforgiveness. I learned about this again from a prophetic dream. And as a new believer, you know I read Jesus’ words years ago, “Forgive and you shall be forgiven”, and I thought, Lord, won’t you just forgive me. And I really didn’t understand how important it as for me to forgive people. And what happened was the Lord taught me this lesson through a dream. I was in another house, completely different dream, but again took place in a house. Remember, Jesus spoke about the person that was delivered from demons and the demon left, and he said, “If that house that he was evicted from wasn’t put in order…” So sometimes our spiritual space is what the Bible uses to symbolize a house. So in other words, I’m in this house and I’m being tormented in this house. There is something behind me that was just tormenting and oppressing me. I couldn’t see what it was. I could just feel the oppression. And in the home I kept on running from room to room to try to escape this tormenter behind me. No matter what room I went into, this tormentor wouldn’t leave. Finally after this went on for some time, I felt the gaze of God come down upon me. I literally felt the gaze of the eye of the Father from Heaven come down upon me, Sid, in the dream. And then the Lord showed me, as his gaze was upon me, somebody in my life that I hadn’t forgiven and he said to me, “Release them.” And as soon as I released them that tormentor was gone. So demons can gain access through unforgiveness. When we stay in unforgiveness we’re legally opening up a place where a demon can get in and torment us. The same thing with willful sin. When someone is willfully living outside of God’s moral boundaries, he places himself in a position where demons have access to him. A big one is generational spirits, spirits that have been in our families.
SID: Like if there’s divorce for the last three generations, you don’t have to be a mental giant.
RABBI SCHNEIDER: Exactly. And you know, even things like depression. You know, if your mom was depressed and your dad was depressed, chances are you’re going to have to deal with that spirit and break it out of your existence, out of your life.
SID: You teach that we should refuse to be intimidated by these spirits. What do you mean?
RABBI SCHNEIDER: Well what I mean is that we know that Jesus is Lord. Every knee shall bow, every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord. He reigns and because he reigns I refuse to allow a demon to have dominion over me. I see this in my own life and see this when I exercise demons out of other people. When we know that they have to leave because Jesus is Lord and we’re his, and he’s ours, they will leave. You know, it’s like I heard you say before, Sid, they won’t leave until they know that you know they have to leave.
SID: Rabbi Schneider, there are people all over the world right now that are struggling with bad thoughts, with demonic problems, with sickness. When we come back I want you to tell us things that God has taught you so that they can be free. Be right back.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah but this is ridiculous Mishpocha Heidi is… I don’t think she’s red hot I think she’s white hot, that’s hotter than red hot. Anyway I caught up with Heidi and Rolland Baker in Toronto they have a wonderful ministry in Mozambique, Africa. On yesterday’s broadcast we found out in 1997 Heidi, who has PhD, was pinned to the floor in Toronto, Canada pinned to the floor by the kavod, that’s the manifest presence. One of the definitions of the word is heaviness of God. Literally pinned her to the floor for several days; she was just totally…how do you describe totally immobile, is that right Heidi?
Heidi: I was incapacitated (laughing).
Sid: But the thing that is so wonderful is the fruit that has come from this. Today you have how many orphans are you taking care of?
Heidi: Several thousand orphans and our church pastors are beginning to take 10 each.
Sid: You said there were a couple thousand churches but you think it’s up close to 3000 now that have started under your ministry in the last few years?
Heidi: Over 3000 now.
Sid: If someone had told you 10 years ago “Heidi you’ll be feeding this many people and you’ll have to start all these churches.” Would you have believed it?
Heidi: I would have been quite shocked.
Sid: I’m sure or if someone would have you told you about your style of preaching and how it would change.
Heidi: (Laughing) I wouldn’t have believed them.
Sid: So for those that are listening for the first time and those that are… I want you to get a little more graphic. Let’s take you to 1997 the first time you had this major encounter with the Lord when you were pinned to the ground. What did He say to you and what did you see?
Heidi: Well the first time as I was sharing a bit yesterday I saw Jesus and I saw His eyes and His lovely beautiful face. The love of God pouring through His eyes and His broken bleeding body and He handed me His side and I fed it to the children. He said “There was always enough because He died.” He handed me a cup that flowed with blood and water from His side He said “There’s always enough because I died.” I gave it away to the children and it multiplied, just multiplied in my hands. From that day we’ve never said no to a dying hurting child taking them all. The next time the weight of God’s presence fell upon when we returned to Toronto and Randy Clark prayed for me and asked me, he said “God asked him would I want the nation, would I want the nation?” I didn’t know what that meant. I didn’t know God gave out nations I was confused by it but I just ran forward kneeled on my knees and my hands lifted and I screamed “Yes! Yes! Yes!” I was shocked by the power of God electrocute shocking and absolutely overcome by the power of God’s presence. Then I was again stuck to the ground unable to move, this lasted for seven days. Rolland and others carried me into the church and out of the church and in this time God spoke to my heart. He said “That I could do nothing, absolutely nothing without Him.”
Sid: Now when you were carried back and forth and out in the spirit that length of time, were you aware of anything going on on the outside? Were you aware that people were carrying you?
Heidi: I was aware of it I even heard some people laughing, some people thought it was kind of funny, but there was not one thing funny about it. It was holy, it was holy, holy, holy the holy presence of God. God… the first part of this literally I became hot I thought I was going to die I began to scream and I’m not one that would scream in church, I began to scream out “I’m going to die! I’m going to die!” God said “Good I want you dead” and that’s what changed my life. He just wanted me dead to my own desires, my own ambitions and He killed me, He killed me, He killed my flesh and after that experience all of the miracles, all of the healing miracles…
Sid: For those that are not familiar would you tell me… you had mentioned off the air that people had been dead are coming back to life. Tell me about that.
Heidi: Yes we have 4 pastors now who have raised the dead. After that experience where I was on the ground the Lord said “He wanted me to start a training school for pastors.” We started with 12 He gave me a prophetic word over 2 that they would raise the dead. I told them to go and pray for the dead. The next month both of them had raised the dead in Jesus name and revival had resulted from that. We’ve just had 2 little girls raised from the dead in Nampula Provence. A Muslim, complete Muslim Provence, and as these girls were raised from the dead, they died in the hospital, they were given back to the families to bury, to bury. This is recent we can’t tell old stories because they’re all so new (laughing). These little girls were dead and they took them back to their huts. This woman who had just been in our Bible school, Pastor Dawn Wheky, she prayed for them and they were both raised from the dead in Jesus name.
Sid: Now I know that your husband’s grandfather saw so many supernatural things of children having heavenly visitations. How about your orphans, has anything like that happening to them?
Heidi: Absolutely that was why we went to Mozambique. We wanted to see a continuation of what Rolland’s grandfather had seen in Hunan Province, China with orphans. The Lord promised us He would do it again and He called us to Mozambique to the poorest of the poor and He began to pour His Spirit out on these children. We started our churches, over 3000 churches now all with orphans and street children. The Lord, just as He touched me and poured His presence over me and incapacitated me He’s doing it to our children. He pours His Spirit into them and they see visions. Little Evon was taken up on shoulders of angels, danced with the angels, sat on the lap of the Lord and told to preach the gospel.
Sid: He was told… Was he the one that was given a song in heaven and brought back to earth?
Heidi: Hallelujah Hosanna yes! Evon.
Sid: Would you sing that song for 20 seconds or so right now?
Heidi: (Singing) Hallelujah Hosanna, Hallelujah Hosanna, Hallelujah Hosanna, Hallelujah hosanna…
Sid: Oh the anointing’s coming strong. Tell me a little bit… I have a video in which your son, your adopted son, and I imagine a few of his friends were singing the song and you were at the Toronto Airport Church. What happens when you sing that song now that song that came right from heaven?
Heidi: Just the presence of the Lord…
Sid: I could feel it as you were singing (laughing)!
Heidi: (Laughing) The presence of the Lord, Nairberto was singing that song it wasn’t Evon in the video but Nairberto who we found on the streets of Maputo a gang leader, a gangster gang leader. Absolutely taken a hold of by God and changed and now he’s at the school of ministry here in Toronto, he’s studying to be a minister.
Sid: Now do they really preach on the streets after they have these visitations?
Heidi: Oh yes we all preach on the streets! We’re still on the streets that’s where all the wonderful stuff happens out on the streets where the poor hear the good news. I was just in a garbage dump a couple of months ago and a man paralyzed from the waist down, 2 months paralyzed – Whoa! – The Lord completely healed Him. He was… yeah 2 years he was paralyzed, 2 years he was unable to walk. I went to the dump went with his wife way down into the depths of the bowls of the dump and the Lord said to me “Baptize him.” I had no river, the poor don’t live by rivers, you know there was no river, there was no lake, and just found a cup of water poured it over his head in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I broke this spirit of death and darkness off of him and he got up and walked in Jesus name. Totally and completely healed – Whoa! I…
Sid: Excuse me Heidi in your video I heard you say what you just said a number of times “Whoa!” Why are you doing that, what is that?
Heidi: I just feel such a strong presence of the Lord that – Whoa! I don’t even know how to contain it, it comes out (laughing).
Heidi: (Laughing) Whoa! Sometimes a holy or… it’s just a strong presence of the Lord hitting me.
Sid: Do you ever have religious people that say “You shouldn’t be doing that!” or “You’re such a good speaker why are you doing that? Why are saying these sounds? Why are you preaching from the floor?” Why?
Heidi: Yes I have but I realize now that the Lord uses the foolish things to confound the wise. I actually just recently was saying to God “I’d like notes and quotes. I’d like to sound Dr. Baker thank you very much.” Because a really coherent speaker had spoken ahead of me and instead as I was going to the bookstore to get some books to get notes and quotes, I was again stuck to the floor with the glory of the Lord. God showed me clown shoes He said “You can’t wear these shoes, you can’t wear these shoes you have to walk in your anointing. You walk in the anointing I’ve given you to walk in and I will use you as a sign and a wonder. I will use you the way I want to use you.” I was unable to get any notes or quotes but God showed up and people were changed.
Sid: Is there a transference of anointing that you’re seeing but… obviously I saw you pray for this transference of anointing on all the students at the school of ministry on the video. Do people die to self? Do people walk in the love that God says is available for us when you pray for them?
Heidi: (Laughing) By God’s grace they do and I get emails from hundreds of people that are giving their life away. Giving their whole life away for our precious King Jesus and serving the poor, and serving the lost and dying. It really really happens because of who He is.
Sid: Heidi we’re out of time.
BERT: I believe there is. We’re at a critical point right now in this nation. But there’s been too many deep wells of revival planted in this nation throughout history. We’ve sent out too much, too many missionaries, too many gospels. There’s righteous seed in this nation and God’s purposes are never vindictive. He’s not looking to punish America. His purposes are always redemptive. So there is hope for this nation because there is a godly remnant, a strong godly remnant that is still living in this nation.
SID: Now we have had revivals in several areas of our country. Nothing compared to those zones that where people would just bow down on the ground and on their knees, and repent over sin where no one was even preaching. But you saw the closest we’ve had. You were out at Brownsville. What did you see?
BERT: The week that I went down there and the services that was in, that I was in, were electric. I mean, people were lining up outside from early morning to early evening to get into the services. And when I walked in there, I could feel the electricity in there. And during the service, those particular services, I remember they mic(ed) little children in the back room, seven, eight, nine years old, moaning and groaning, and travailing. They had mics on them in the Spirit, having this consciousness of God and eternity and the lostness of the world. And I remember one of those services they put in on the platform, they put these large trash bins. And the evangelist was talking about articles of affection that we all have in our lives, and he was calling for repentance. It was a strong call for repentance that night. And he had people come up, people that had addictions, people that were bound by these, what he called these different articles of affection. He had, you know, anything from drug paraphernalia to cigarettes, to pornographic magazines. I mean, people came up with all this trash and threw it in these trash bins and they had a rejoicing party, people repenting, people crying over their sins and then being set free from all these addictions. That’s, that was the week I went. There was a tremendous altar calls, hundreds, there was crying, tears of great, great crying, weeping and then tears followed by tears of great joy and rejoicing.
SID: You told me during the break that you have an unction to pray for miracles and fire. Would you do that right now.
BERT: Yes. Father, I thank you right now for the Spirit of God. There is no distance in the Spirit. And right now wherever people are watching in cities and nations here and across the world, I thank you now for your holy fire. I thank you Father for a revelation of Jesus Christ flooding across these nations right now, and dreams and visions being given to many that would reveal Christ to them and cause an explosion of holy fire that would ignite within them even now. And Father, those that are sick, those that are diseased, tormented, chronic sicknesses, terminal sicknesses, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, Father, I release now that power and anointing of power to go into these people’s bodies. I see people in hospital beds right now that are watching this. In the name of Jesus Christ, get up from your bed. Get up from your deathbed. Be free from your cancer and your terminal diseases. In the name of Jesus Christ, receive that healing power and that healing anointing right there in your room where you are through a transfer, a transfer of God’s Holy Spirit right now. In Jesus’ name be healed now. Cripples, be healed. Those that can’t even hear maybe watching television, have problems with your ears, in the name of Jesus, ears be open, deaf and dumb spirits come out in the name of Jesus. Those that are having problems with their eyes even blindness, in Jesus name, eyes be open, blindness go, demons leave in Jesus’ name. Be free right now of every damnable disease that is impoverishing your life right now by the power to the glory of Jesus Christ. Amen.
SID: I tell you, joints are being healed right now. I tell you that there is joy in Heaven over one sinner that repents.
SID: You say I’m that one. You repent of your sin. Do I have to tell you? No, you know what it is. You tell Jesus you’re sorry. Believe the blood of Jesus gives you the power and washes away your sin so you can walk the way you’ve always wanted to. Make Jesus your Lord and watch the angels in Heaven start rejoicing just for you. You know I’m talking to you. Now do business with God.
BERT: Yes, yes, yes.
SID: You talk about keys so that we can really understand.
SID: What God’s will is. I mean, so many people are almost paralyzed.
SID: For fear they’re going to do something wrong, so they don’t do anything.
SID: And then they go their whole life doing nothing, and they had a whole destiny ahead of themselves. One of your keys that you talk about is determine that you’re going to be led by God and nothing else.
KAREN: Everybody that I know wants to be led by God. They want to hear his plan. They want to obey him and move, but they don’t necessarily know the track to take. But when we determine that we’re going to be led by him, in other words, Father I’m not going to do anything until I hear from you, that requires several things from us. We first have to seek him. Right? And so if you’re facing a major decision or you’re looking for God’s direction in life, you have to decide, first of all, most important, I’m going to see God about this and nothing else. We make decisions based on money. We make decisions based on lack of money. We make decisions based on circumstances or feelings, or opinions of other people, or we make our own pro-con list, you know, and we have to remember that, like Proverbs 3:5-6 says, “Trust in the Lord with all your heart. Don’t lean to your understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him and he’ll make your path straight.” Our understanding is one thing, but we understand in a very limited way, don’t we?
SID: So give me an example like tragedy hits your whole family. How did this play out?
KAREN: Yes. Well you know, when I was 37 years old and my first husband was 37 years old, he died. We were pastoring a church. He just was sick, suddenly, just went home to be with the Lord. My sons were 12 and 13 years old. And so you can imagine I just had major decisions to make every day, all day instead of taking advice from other people, which is important and good, but you need to weigh everything by what the Holy Spirit is saying to you. And so I had to spend extra, extra time in the Word of God. You know, the Bible is God talking to us and it’s how I walked out this whole, I had to take over pastoring our church and raising teenage sons, and I really needed the Word of the Lord in my life more than anything. And it probably, you know, grounded me inside of me.
SID: Not to mention, even though you sorted it out, you had to, coming from your husband was a graduate of Rhema, too.
SID: And coming from that background, when something like that happens, it’s just not supposed to happen.
SID: And in addition, having sorting out why your husband died suddenly and having two children to raise, and pastoring a church.
KAREN: Yes. And so I spent that time pressing into his Word. And by that I mean I read it a lot. I meditated on it. I, you know, there’s a scripture in Psalm 119 that says, “Lord [except] for your Word I would have perished in my affliction.” And that was me. I read it like a five-year-old learning to read, ran my hand down the page because the Bible is God talking to us, and that’s how we learn to recognize his voice.
SID: Tell me a little bit more about that because that is key to recognize God’s voice. You said practice, but tell me a little more about that.
KAREN: Well think about it. If the Bible is God talking to us then we need to hear him talking to us. And if we familiarize ourself with the Bible, we read it a lot, we’ll find out how he leads people, how he guides people, what he sounds like, you know. And I use this analogy, because I heard one time that the U.S. Treasury Department trains their agents to recognize a counterfeit bill by giving them the real bills. And they touch them, and they smell them, and they put them under a microscope, and they look at them a long time so that they’re so familiar with the real that if a counterfeit comes along they notice it right away. And what if we as Christians, as believers, as people who love God get into the Word of God so much we understand the real that if a counterfeit idea, you know, the devil comes along or our own voice comes along, we recognize it right away.
SID: Now you were trying to decide something. What was God telling you to do?
KAREN: When I was pastoring our church after my husband passed away and God started talking to me about moving to Tulsa, and I didn’t want to because I loved the Northwest and my family and friends were there, and Tulsa is in the Midwest. And you know, and so I made my own pro-con list, and under pro it said, “Because God said so.” And under con it said, “Because I don’t want to move there and my friends and family are here.” And the con list was about ten things long, and the pro list was about one. And if I had gone by a pro-con list, I would have voted con and stayed there, and been out of God’s will. So we can’t go necessarily by our own idea of a pro-con list.
SID: How did it turn out?
KAREN: It turned out good. I moved to Tulsa and I ended up, you know, got to teach at Rhema and really travel the world, and preach. And so who know where I would be if I hadn’t obeyed God.
SID: If she wasn’t determined to follow God and no one else. Now what is the difference between hearing his audible voice or promptings? Everyone is looking for his audible voice.
KAREN: Yeah. And really most of us are to be led by the inward witness. You know, the Bible teaches us that we are a threefold being. You know, we live in a body. We have a soul, but we are a spirit and the part of us that’s a spirit, the born again part, is just like Jesus. It’s just like God. And so then we are meant to hear his voice. He said in John 10:27, “My sheep hear my voice and they follow me.” And so we are meant to recognize his voice, but we hear it as a prompting from the inward man, from the Spirit, the Holy Spirit speaking to us. I like to call it a knowing in your knower.
SID: Okay. Give me an example of a prompting when you were driving late at night.
KAREN: Yeah. One time I was on I-5 driving, you know. And in my family, if you get tired while you’re driving, I was all by myself, we just pull over to the side of the road and take a nap. And so I was tired, I pulled over, I leaned the seat back and I went to sleep. And I don’t know how long I had been sleeping, but all of a sudden, the Lord just prompted me. I got this inward witness that just woke me up, and I sat bolt upright, and I felt the Holy Spirit say, “Move now.” And so I put the seat up, I started the car, and I moved. And really, that’s the end of the story, which it turned out good because nothing bad happened. Who knows, maybe a, you know, trucker was sleepy and he would have veered off the road right then and squashed my little Honda like a bug. And so, you know, I listened to the Holy Spirit and he gave me that inward witness, and I obeyed him.
SID: Tell me about your son’s experience where you learned how important it is, and listen to this, watch your mouth.
KAREN: Yes. That’s one of the keys to hearing the voice of God because we need to be sure our words agree with the Bible, you know, because the Bible is what we’re following. It’s our roadmap for our destiny. And if we talk opposite of it, say somebody goes in their prayer closet and they say, “Lord, please help me, direct me, guide me, let me know your direction for my life,” and then they come out of their prayer closet and you ask them, “So what are you going to do?” And they go, “I don’t know, I can’t hear from God.” They just said the opposite of what they prayed.
SID: And they got the opposite.
KAREN: Yeah, exactly. And so my son, you know, he was facing graduation. He was an ORU senior and everybody asked him, like you ask all graduates, you know, what are you going to do when you graduate, and he didn’t know. And he hated to have to keep saying, I don’t know, because he’s been praying to know. And so finally one day he said to me, “Mom, I’ve come up with the answer. When people ask me, what are you going to do after graduation, I’m going to say, I’ll know when the time comes.”
SID: Much better.
KAREN: That way he keeps his word in agreement with the Word.
SID: I like that.
SID: Okay. When we come back you’re going to find out one of the most important keys. And I mean, it’s been deemphasized in our society and shame on you that are deemphasizing this. It’s called tongues, supernatural languages.
SID: This is where the power is. We’ll be right back.
SID: You know Gary, during the commercial break, you told me how important money is. Sickness, it’s very important to get on top of that.
SID: But money affects everyone, everything. I even read that’s the number one cause of divorces.
GARY: Yes. Yes. You know, you can talk about issues and of course we’re not downplaying any of those issues, but the point is money affects everyone. And if you’re in debt or you’re in lack, and you’re in this financial stranglehold it’s, it actually sucks the life out of you, sucks all the vision, all the hope, and it aims everything in just survival. And it’s amazing how you begin to think in survival mode how you just try to make it through one more week until Friday night, you know. I tell people God really wants you to not like Friday night and love Monday morning because you’re so passionate about what you’re doing in life. You’re not in survival mode just making a living. You’re like, I got to stop. It’s Friday night? I want to get back to Monday morning again.
SID: You even told me that the stress and worry of over money causes people to get sick.
GARY: Absolutely. I think stress, I think the study showed that stress does cause a large majority of the illnesses in our body.
SID: Okay. Would you say that lack of money is a curse?
GARY: Well I would agree it is, but I didn’t say that. The Bible did. Back in Genesis, Chapter 3, of course, Adam and Eve had no concerns. All their provision was there.
SID: What a life.
GARY: What a life. They were, man was made at the end of the sixth day designed to live in the seventh day, the day of rest. Now God wasn’t tired when it says that God rested. He was finished. Everything was complete. And so they didn’t have to worry. But Adam gave it all away. He rebelled against God. He lost that place of authority and dominion he had over the earth realm and God approached in Genesis, chapter 3, verse 17, and said, “Now by your own painful toil and sweat you’ll have to eat of the earth.” I call that the earth curse and that’s where everyone has grown up. That’s why “Everyone Wants to be a Millionaire” is so popular, that’s why the lottery is so popular. Everyone is tired of the wait of finding provision. Jesus said, “If the unbeliever runs in painful toil and sweat after the things of life” and that’s, everyone filters their direction by that. There’s a good job paying in California, I’ll move. There’s a better paying job over here. I’ll do that. And they miss their identity. See, Adam had to lose his identity. He was to take care of God’s stuff. He was created for a purpose and now he lost his purpose, and his purpose was survival and trying to find provision. And everyone has done that. Everyone is filtering every decision in this earth-cursed system through survival either running after money or if they have it, hoarding it because the only escape out of this rat race is to have more than enough.
SID: Now you say that we need to change. Kingdoms change laws. What do you mean?
GARY: Take a look at Luke, chapter 5 with Peter, James and John, Jesus walking on the shore comes there and they’ve been fishing all night. Jesus wants to borrow Peter’s boat and goes out, does borrow the boat, comes back in. Jesus says, “Go fish. GO fishing. Cast your net out.” And Peter said, “Master, we fished all night and got nothing, the earth cursed system. We’ve labored but nothing is there.” And then they didn’t catch just so many fish. The net is about broke and both boats, their, Peter’s and his partner’s James’ and John’s boats both about sank. What’s the difference? I began, as a spiritual scientist, I say. I say okay, why did that happen? Well you follow the story, when the boat was given to Jesus to use in ministry, the boat changed legal jurisdiction from the affairs of men, the dominion of men in the earth realm, to under the Kingdom of God’s jurisdiction. At that point, Jesus had a legality. Heaven had a legality in the earth realm where Heaven downloaded to Jesus where the fish were at. And Jesus said the fish are over there in the deep water. You and I can catch fish if Jesus told us where they were. And so the difference in my life, and God began to give me business ideas. He gave me a dream in the night to start a business. He began to show me where the fish were. He began to show me how to harvest. You know, the earth realm is such a poverty-driven system. It’s a lack-driven system to survive that peace, most people are looking for money and they have it all backwards. Money, God doesn’t have any money. Okay. All money is created in the earth realm by [ ] buying and selling. The Lord told me one time, “My church has learned to give but not have a harvest.” All right. So we have to know how the system works. In other words, since God has no money when you give, as we said in the illustration, Luke, chapter 5, when we sow, our money does change governments, gives God jurisdiction to create opportunities. I always say don’t look for money. God helps us create or capture opportunities to create wealth. So what happens, people are not taught, they will sow and they’re waiting with what I call mailbox mentality, waiting for it just to show up. They think someone is going to walk down the street and say, here’s a million dollars and of course it doesn’t happen that way. You can have a million dollar idea is how it happens.
SID: All right. Tell me about the cheesecake.
GARY: You’re talking about Chris. So he heard in our conference how God will download ideas, concepts, direction and he had nothing, no ideas, no money. But he said, “I make a really good cheesecake.” He said, “You know, I really make a healthy good cheesecake. I wonder if I can sell that.
SID: He can sell it to me. I’m looking for good cheesecake.
GARY: Well this was the first night of the conference. So he went home and made this cheesecake. He began to pray about what I was saying and he thought, I’m going to take this cheesecake down to the local health food store and see if they like it. So he took it down there the next day. It just so happened the CEO of the entire health food chain was there that day and tasted the cheesecake, and said it’s the best cheesecake he ever had. And so Chris comes to my meeting that night and comes up for prayer, and says, “I got this opportunity,” and he told me what happened, you know. “Thank you. I want to pray about this.” And so he comes back the next day all excited because the company had decided to actually give him a contract to bake cheesecakes. And then that Friday night of the conference, the CEO, who was visiting from California, came to our meeting, got born again, filled with the spirit because he was so impressed with what he heard Chris talk about.
SID: You know what I have found out that Gary has a gift and when he teaches according to this gift it’s not just for money. These laws work for everything.
SID: When we come back I want him to tell us about the secret weapon. Don’t go away.
SID: Hank Kunneman, one of the first times we got together when we started ministering, you gave me a personal prophecy. And I have to tell you, I, you know, I’ve been around a long time, and so I hear the prophecies and I know the ones that miss it and the ones that get it, and unfortunately too many miss it. But Hank said to me, “You know, Sid,” it was right after we did, I believe, a radio show. He said, “You know, Sid, I see you not being,” he didn’t use this word, I will, “a wandering Jew going from one studio to another to do your television show. You’re going to have your own studio. You’re going to have your own, the Lord is telling me you’re going to have your own equipment.” And do your remember telling me, prophesying that?
HANK: Yes I do. I remember that.
SID: You even went a step further though. He told me the name of the person that was going to sell me this studio, the studio you see today, he prophesied before I even knew about it. But you know, there’s so, thank you. You know, there are so many prophecies I’d like to talk to you about, but one in particular. For Oral Roberts to talk about you being the most accurate prophet he knows, you actually, if I understand right according to notes, you prophesied his death.
HANK: Yes, his going home actually.
SID: Tell me about that.
HANK: Yes. His wife had gone home to be with the Lord and I said to myself, he really wanted to go be with his wife.
SID: I know.
HANK: And I said, “What are you going to do?” He was 89. I said, “What are you going to do when you’re 91? And there shall be the sounds of Christmas bells, and just before Christmas, there shall be a gathering of angels and there shall be a welcoming home of you as one of God’s great generals that have walked this earth.” And he actually, December 15th on my dad’s birthday, at 91.
SID: Now I was told.
SID: Yes, that’s what I was told. He got upset with Hank because he was ready to see his wife and go to Heaven.
HANK: That’s right. He was ready to go then, but the Lord told him what age.
SID: Well there’s so many other things we can talk about. Just to kind of establish the authenticity of your words, you had some prophecies over former President Bill Clinton. Tell me about that.
HANK: You know, I was doing a series of meetings in the southern part of the United States and I was praying for one particular meeting. And all of a sudden I went into a vision, and this was back, I think around the 1995ish, right around when Bill Clinton, and I saw him actually open a door and walk into what looked like a hallway or a closet and a young woman with dark hair met him. And the Word of the Lord said, “What shall be done and is being done in the higher office of the land should release the spirit of perversion upon the nation.” And we’ve seen how that has been the case and, you know, obviously there is the Lord’s forgiveness for such a thing. But it did release a lot on the nation, you know, that we’re still dealing with today. So yeah, that was one prophecy that did happen.
SID: Did you see that he would win two times?
HANK: Yeah I did, yeah.
SID: I’ll tell you one of the biggest questions I have is there are so many prophets prophesying destruction. I’ve had them on my show. I love them. They’re wonderful men and women of God. And here’s you saying things are, this is the best time we’ve ever had on Planet Earth. How could so many are seeing gloom and doom?
HANK: Let me tell you about an experience of the Lord. This was just recently. I went before the Lord and he was grieved for two days. And I kept pressing God saying, God, “I want an answer. What are you grieved about?” And the Lord began to deal with me, and he said, “Hank,” he said, “too many are prophesying the obvious.” If I say to you, Sid, that there are going to be more droughts. There’s going to be more school shootings, unfortunately, you know, you would say, well wow. Well that’s obvious. We are in a season that’s evil, but God is invading it with his good. And so the Lord said, “There’s many that are prophesying according to the spirit of fear.” You know, fear is a very powerful spirit. It’s a spirit and it’s what the enemy is using to push back the Glory. You see, many are prophesying—
SID: Excuse me. That was too good to slip over so fast.
SID: You’re saying to me that the enemy is using a lot of this. They don’t even need prophets. You just watch the news.
SID: To push back the Glory. Why does this negativity push back the Glory?
HANK: Well let me give you an example. Because in Y2K, you remember Y2K.
SID: Of course. We all do.
HANK: I had a visitation from the Lord and there was a scroll given to me by an angel in the vision, and it said, “Tell my people that this is not going to be as they say. And tell the people that fear, the spirit, is trying to push back the Glory and the spirit of fear is trying to cross the new millennial line ahead of my church and is using the church.” Because see, Jesus said, “When two or more agree as touching any one thing upon this earth, it will be established.” When we got into agreement with the spirit of fear, watch this, we got into agreement with the spirit of fear, it unleashed the spirit of fear and a year later, our towers fell in New York City. And we still are battling that spirit that was allowed to come when we were storing up and looking at things by way of fear rather than does God have a plan for the new millennium. And so the Lord was saying, even with the prophets, you know, and he said we have to be wise because prophecy, and tapping into the prophetic, is like a radio. It’s frequencies. And Moses had to go above the dark cloud where God was to get a different perspective or a higher perspective. There is a realm, if we’re not careful, we as prophets can here the secrets of God. We can also hear the plans of the enemy and if we’re not careful we can prophesy the plans of the enemy as if it’s the Spirit of God. And that’s why sometimes there’s a confusion. So God is saying we need to come up higher.
SID: We have to tap into the right frequency.
SID: And I can see that because if you agree with the spirit, oh someone’s neck was just healed. If you agree with the Spirit of God, if two or more agree touching any one thing that will happen, what if you agree with the spirit of the god with a small “g” of this age? You see, I believe the media and unfortunately many prophets are tapping into the second heaven rather than higher up, the third heaven where God is. When we come back I want Hank to answer that question because he’s heard from God on this. We’ll be right back.