Sid: On yesterday’s broadcast I was speaking to my good friend Jonathan Bernis. You’re familiar with him perhaps you’ve seen him on television “Jewish Voice with Jonathan Bernis.” We were talking about when… how many years ago was that we used to pray in tongues and supernatural languages Jonathan?
Jonathan: Sid we’re coming up on 30 years; it was 1984, 85, 86 so…
Sid: So we used to get together for days of prayer and fasting and praying in tongues. And you started doing things that frankly you didn’t understand and I didn’t understand. As we got deeper into praying in tongues you started travailing like a woman in childbirth and we didn’t even know what was going on. But when you pray in supernatural languages you are prophesying your future. And by the way the devil doesn’t have a clue. And I’m reminded of another experience Jonathan we had. We both went to a camp meeting with Kenneth Hagin, and he called us forward and he prophesied over me in English. And then he prophesied over you but what happened to you when he started to prophesy?
Jonathan: Well the power of God came all over me and He began to speak in other tongues, in other languages. I believe that he was prophesying directly to my spirit. And it could have been about the call to Russia; the Jewish people in Russia in the Soviet Union. But I knew that something was going on it was bypassing my mind. Frankly Sid maybe what he was saying if I had processed it with my mind I would have been in unbelief but because it came out in other tongues it went directly into my spirit and released faith.
Sid: But I found it interesting; he did that because he did not want the devil to even hear this word. I’m convinced of that and the presence of God I mean you were out; you didn’t even… I had to tell you what happened because you didn’t even know what was going on.
Jonathan: I know.
Sid: And actually, I’ll tell you when it was; it was January 26, 1995. Let me read to you and mine was in English. And this is what he prophesied over me. “Earnest sincere desires, hungry in your spirit will be satisfied. Fulness, fulness, fulness ability imparted on to you.” And then he began to laugh (Ha, ha, ha, ha) “Stand the test, win the battle, do the work, great work. Many will be gathered, many, many, many, many.” And you know what? I have found since that point when he started doing (Ha, ha, ha, ha) that when I pray in supernatural languages when the prayer has gotten to heaven and it really has gotten through I start speaking ha, ha, ha, ha. And I know that I’m laughing at the devil you don’t have a clue of what I’m saying Mr. devil you must be going mashuga, you must be going crazy. (Laughing)
Jonathan: That’s right and I begin to laugh hysterically sometimes when something’s been broken in the spirit. And then it materializes in the flesh; it’s an amazing thing. First in the spirit and then in the natural.
Sid: And you had to raise ridiculous sums of money to bring all the people from the United States to the former Soviet Union and do these big Jewish concerts and dance festivals and outreaches. I’m convinced again you were even prophesying the money that would come in for it. And you had it come in in a very supernatural fashion.
Jonathan: Absolutely true and I’m sure that that was the case. Sid when we had our first outreach. You remember that big beautiful hall like the Carnegie Hall of St. Petersburg? When I rented that hall I had no money; no money at all. No money for the hall rental, no money for the advertising, no money for the plan tickets, no money for the hotel, no money for the sound and lights; nothing, nada. And through prayer, and I belive much of it supernatural and other tongues, I got a call from someone that I’d never met that ended up paying for 80% of the entire event. One person; never met him and he heard about me and called me right before I left for Russia.
Sid: But I got to impress on those that we’re mentoring right now if you and I some 30 years ago did not spend days praying and fasting and speaking in supernatural languages I don’t believe these things would have happened. I mean when I walk around It’s Supernatural Ministry and I realize that we have state of the art and the buildings all paid for and we’re all over the world and we’re going now into the Spanish language and we’re in the Russian language all over the former Soviet Union. And we’re in the Farsi language and I say “Who could possibly have believed that?” But Jonathan you said that there was a second key in addition to speaking in tongues that triggered your faith. What was that?
Jonathan: Sid let me just say this “Without faith it’s impossible to please God.” And I don’t think that anything of lasting value; I’m talking about that which remains after the wood, hay, and stubble is burned away happens any other way than through faith. Unless the Lord build the house those who labor labor in vane; and that is built through faith. The second way that we can build faith and hear from God and release things prophetically and see creative miracles is through the word of God. Confession of the Word of God Roman’s 1:17 tells us that “Faith comes from hearing and that hearing by the word of God.” Now that verse has the hearing twice in it. And that’s not by accident; I don’t want people to miss this. There’s two kinds of hearing everyone; there’s hearing with the natural ear and there’s hearing secondly with the ear of the Spirit. And the gateway to the ear of the Spirit is the natural ear; we confess the word of God; we confess the word of God; and eventually we hear it with the inner ear of our spirit. And when it gets into our spirit it releases faith; faith is built up. And when we confess it again it’s creative it has force. And it becomes what we decree drops into the natural realm when we see it come to pass.
Sid: Let me read a prophesy from Malachi chapter 3 verse 16 & 17. It blew me out of the water when I read this the other day. “Then those who feared the Lord spoke to one another and the Lord listened and heard them. So a book of remembrance was written before him; for those who fear the Lord and who mediate on His Name they shall be Mine.” There’s that meditating again.
Jonathan: Yeah, that mediate; that word mediation is different than the Christian concept of meditation. The Christian concept of meditation is to reflect with the mind. But the Hebrew which is Haga and that should be familiar to Jewish people listening we have the Haggadah which is to tell the story of Passover. It’s to confess; it’s to confess; it’s to groan; it’s to sigh to mutter; to speak forth. And when God exhorted Joshua to be strong and to take the land. He said “To mediate confess; speak forth on my word day and night and if you do that you’ll be successful and you’ll take the land.”
Sid: Now, let’s go to this beautiful coffee table book “Confessing the Hebrew Scriptures with a CD inside and it’s called “The Lord is Peace.” Take me through this.
Jonathan: Okay Sid this is a work book that’s what I call these; these series on confessing the Hebrew workbook. It is a beautiful bound book that would be a great coffee table book; with beautiful restful pictures. And so on the back there’s a CD; you put the CD in and you begin to follow along in the English and then the Hebrew. And then I employ a technique a system I learned growing up in synagogue called “Transliteration.” Very few Jewish people can actually read Hebrew anymore so our prayer books have this transliteration which is phonetically sounding out the Hebrew in English so we can read along and be part of the prayers in the synagogue. Well I’ve employed that method to this workbook; so without any study; without any knowledge of Hebrew in 5 minutes you can be confessing scriptures related to this name of God, Jehovah Shalom, or Adonai Shalom. Peace, rest, breaking through anxiety, fear and so on. And you’re actually confessing the word of God in the Hebrew language along with a Hebrew speaker on the CD with beautiful music in the background. And Sid by doing that you’re speaking in the tongue of the prophets; scriptures that directly combat anxiety, fear, tension, depression. And the word shalom is related to completion, the wholeness and it actually drops into your spirit eventually. You’re building faith, it actually changes you; I promise anyone that will actually put this to work will be changed in a week.
Sid: This is brand new but you’ve had a similar one out on healing; but you know what this combines both of them because as you explained the word shalom completeness. Complete in your spirit, in your soul and in your body. So every area of life and this day and age we’re living in many feel as the Orthodox Jews do that we’re in the footsteps of Messiah. And everything that can shake is going to be shaken and if you have built into your spirit the shalom, the completeness of God no weapon formed against you can prosper. But what types of feedback did you get when you did this several years ago? What types of healings and testimonies did you get?
Jonathan: Well, we had some great testimonies Sid; we had people that were completely delivered; supernaturally delivered. I had a very touching letter from a pastor who actually heard about this resource on your program and they ordered the workbook “Jehovah Rophek, the Lord our healer.” And he gave it to a woman in his church who was dying of Leukemia and she began to play it. In fact the doctors gave her 10 to 12 days to live. He gave her the CD and the workbook, she listened to it continually; she confessed these scriptures and she was completely healed. The doctors declared that she was completely healed that she didn’t even have Leukemia cells in her body at all. And then her body began to produce blood cells again. And she has lived to declare the works of the Lord; amazing testimony it’s just one of many that we’ve received through people that have received this and put it to work in their life.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah. As a matter of fact, I can’t understand why everyone is not red hot for the Messiah. Do you know red hot is normal? Lukewarm, you get vomited out of God’s mouth according to the book of Revelation, and cold I don’t have to define that you know what cold is. So red hot is normal and if you’re not normal then you’ve turned into the right station at the right time because I’ve got a man that’s also like me; he’s red hot. You’ve heard of the organization he started Promise Keepers. His name is Coach Bill McCartney. Many of you know him because of his supernatural, and I do say supernatural coaching career. On yesterday’s broadcast we found out that when he was a Coach at the University of Colorado he did okay but nothing special. His Pastor comes walking up to him and he said “He had a dream about him and that he’d be Coach of the Year and that he’d have a golden year.” Coach just for those that didn’t hear it yesterday or those that need to hear it again tell me again what the Headlines said and what the year was like in Colorado after that prophecy.
Coach: Well Pastor James Rowel told me that we’re going to have a Golden Season and that I would be the National Coach of the Year. Then we played our first game on national television against the University of Texas. And the next day in the Denver Post right across the Front Page it said “Buff’s” short for Buffalos; we were the Colorado Golden Buffalos. It said “Buff’s Debut Golden Season.” That was a shocking headline because you don’t win 1 game and have somebody say you’re having a Golden Season, and you don’t make 1 game and make the front page. But what happened was we won all 11 games; we ranked number 1 at the end of the regular season. I was selected the National Coach of the year and truly we had a Golden Season.
Sid: Coach, tell me about the time someone yelled to you during a football game “Where is your God now?”
Coach: It was years later when I took a team back to Ann Arbor to play the University of Michigan. Prior to the game the Lord had showed me during the summer in July that a passage in scripture Promise Keepers had exploded on the scene we were filling stadiums. And in the second chapter of Haggai the 2nd verse it says “You will shake the nations.” When I mediated on that verse I really understood at that time that God was going to shake the nations with this ministry Promise Keepers this men’s ministry. Then a little further down in the 2nd chapter in the 18th verse it says on the 9th month on the 24th day I will bless you. And I looked on the calendar I did what you would do if you were a football coach; I looked to see if on the 9th month on the 24th day if we had a game. And low and behold we were going to play the University of Michigan where 13 years ago I had come and really I had come in a prophetic sense and when God had kind of moved me to Colorado. So I asked the Lord even though on the Jewish calendar on the 9th month and the 24th day isn’t September the 24th still I asked the Lord “Can I receive that, are you going to bless me?” And the Lord affirmed to me that He was going to bless me on that day. Sure enough we’re playing Michigan and we get there I got to tell you this piece to the story. When we get there it is Friday and in the Ann Arbor news it had my picture on the sports page that wouldn’t be unusual both teams were undefeated this was a nationally televised game. This was a big game by any stretch of the imagination. So below my picture though it says Matthew 7:24 it says “This man built his house on rock.” For those of you that aren’t familiar with the verse it says “Whoever hears these words of mine and does them is like a wise man who builds his house on rock; whoever hears these words of mine and doesn’t do them is like a foolish man that builds his house on sand.” Then it says, “Storms are coming everyone is promised storms but the one who builds his house on rock his house ill endure.” So anyway you know it’s this picture of me and it’s this picture verse and trust me the Ann Arbor News doesn’t quote scripture on the sports page. And so this was highly unusual well, the next day we’re playing; we’re trailing late in the game and we’ve got time for one more play and people are familiar with football may remember this situation and we were on our own 33 yard-line time for one play left and a guy stood up in the stands, there’s 107,000 people at the game, and at this time there was just a little bit of a lull in the action so the stadium had quieted just momentarily waiting for them to move the yard sticks. This guy just bellowed out loud enough for 1000’s of people to hear. He says “McCartney where is your God now?” Well on the next play we completed a pass a deflected pass that went for a touchdown, we won the game it was called the play of the year in college football
Sid: You knew that you were going to win though.
Coach: My God showed up.
Sid: (Laughing) You’d be in big trouble if you God did not show up!
Coach: That’s right your God’s got to show up.
Sid: You and I are talking about other things before this broadcast and you keep saying to me is “All I want is God to show up.”
Sid: You know that’s all I want and that’s all everyone that’s listening that’s all you need you don’t need anything else. And in our peanut brains we try to figure out and we try to calculate and we try to plan, and the truth of the matter is that scripture that you said yesterday “Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not in your own understanding and acknowledge Him in all of your ways and He will direct your path.”
Coach: You know I’m wanting to come really close; I mean I want to be fully intimate. I want all that He has for me; I want to be filled with His Spirit. I don’t want to chase my tail; I don’t want to squander my days. I don’t want to just be a guy who knew the Lord; I want to be a guy who serves the Lord.
Sid: Give me some advice; I think any true Christian wants what you said but the flesh, the devil, other things they’re strong forces coach.
Coach: Here’s what I would say; I would say “Take God at His word; go after Him pursue Him.” The Bible says “Draw near to God and He will draw near to you.” And so you get up in the morning and you get up early enough to have a time with Him and then you pursue Him. And whether you think He showed up that day or not you just keep pursuing Him. Day after day after day you know what you’re going to discover that He’s going to wrap His arms around you; He’s going to breathe on you; He’s going to fill you with His Holy Spirit. He promises to do that because scriptures says in Matthew 5:6 it says “Blessed is he who hungers and thirst for righteousness for he shall be filled.” In other words if you hunger and thirst to be right with God if you have to have Him at all costs and you pursue Him like that. See Jeremiah 13 says “You shall seek Me and you shall find Me when you seek Me with all your heart.” God’s not looking for a part-time believer as Sid has said that is red hot. Now God may test you; you may go two weeks, God wants to be sure that you’re not going to turn back. Then He’s going to fill you with His Spirit and when He fills you with His Spirit it’s just a whole new way to live and die. It is the abundant life; now you take Him everywhere you go everything you’re involved in. Whether it’s coaching football, whether it’s men’s ministry or whether it’s being a good husband or father; whatever it is you take Him with you.
Sid: You know Coach I just want to PS to something that you’re saying. It doesn’t matter whether you feel like it; it doesn’t matter whether you say “Well, I don’t know if my hearts want You as much as my mind says, but I’m going to go after you with as an act of my will God because I really want to make contact with you. I really need to have intimacy with you.” God can’t resist that can He coach?
Coach: He’s a rewarder of those that who diligently seek Him; but you must believe that He is God. And so you got to go after Him and take Him at His word until He shows up.
Sid: Well, we did it again we’re just about out of time… very few people know about the origins of Christianity, the Jewish roots of Christianity. Very few Christians understand where traditional Judaism went astray; very few Christians understand areas where traditional Christianity went astray. Before Jesus returns, I have it on good authority the Word of God there will be the glorious church; the glorious congregations. Do you know why it will be the glorious church? Because it will be filled with manifest presence of God. Someone will not have to lay hands on you in this glorious church you’ll just have to walk into the cloud; that same cloud that Moses walked in. Did you know that Moses lived 120 years of age? He had a secret of youth; he just spent a lot of time in the glory; that’s what Coach McCartney is talking about. You don’t get old in that glory… I believe the greatest move on planet earth of God’s Spirit where more souls are going to come in. But the truth of the matter is God wants to use you; God wants to use everyone but most people will miss this move because there looking for God in a different way. I don’t know exactly how the move will be but I know some of the ingredients…
Sid: I am so excited about introducing a friend of mine to you that’s been on our broadcast previously; he’s been on our television show – Dr. Howard Morgan. Dr. Morgan has a book called “Leaves from the Olive Tree.” I’ll tell you something, he has gleaned insights into the One New Man, or the One New Race that I wish I had put in my book which I didn’t. You know what, I wasn’t supposed to put it in my book. The reason I wasn’t supposed to put it in my book is each of us receives a little bit different revelation, and when we put it all together we get the complete thing. He has brought, literally, this book is an anthology of kingdom perspectives. What do I mean by that? Let me read a little bit. He says “When the church departed from its Jewish roots and embraced non-Biblical concepts and theologies, Satan was able to infect the church with numerous,” whoa this is heavy, “doctrines of demons.” Have you wondered why you read the Bible; you know what the church is supposed to be like; you know about the power that’s supposed to be there; you know about the love that supposed to be there. The truth of the matter is in many instances there’s not a great deal of difference between those who call themselves Christians, and people that are non-Christians that are very moral people. There’s as many divorces in the church as outside of the church. There’s as many people addicted to pornography in the church as outside the church. There’s got to be a change, there’s got be something different. Have we really deviated? I guess I put so much out there right now, I’m going to do something I was debating whether I should do it or not. My guest Dr. Howard Morgan told me he recently had a revelation from God about Christianity. At first I said “I can’t let him say this on my show.” Second, I said “I got to let him say this on my show.” Howie would you tell me this revelation.
Dr. Morgan: Thanks, first Sid it is great to be with you. I just want to honor the Lord by saying how much your ministry has meant to me, and how honored I am to be on your show and see all the work that the Lord is doing through your ministry.
Sid: Well thank you so much, but I’ll tell you what I am so excited to just sit down and brainstorm with you, another Jewish man that understands there is something more and is not going to settle for mediocrity or “religion.”
Dr. Morgan: Amen, amen, amen. We’ve had a passion for the kingdom of God since we’ve had our supernatural encounters with the Lord Jesus in the early 70’s. In answer to your question about this revelation, oh several years ago I was in my car driving through the states in my traveling ministry and came through the part of the town where all of the churches were zoned together so you had all the church buildings in one area. As I was driving through I felt the Holy Spirit speak to me and said “These people are practicing an aberrant religion.” Now I knew it was the Lord Sid because the word “aberrant” was not part of my vocabulary; I didn’t know what the word meant. So I pulled my car over and pulled out a little electronic dictionary that I have because every now and again the Lord does that to me to let me know it is Him and not me. I typed into the dictionary aberrant and of course I spelled it wrong and it came up and it said “Do you mean this word?” Aberrant is that which has moved away from the pattern; that which has diverged from the original intention. When I saw that word and I heard in my spirit, God was saying “These people are practicing a religion that has moved away from the original pattern, that apostolic and prophetic pattern of love, and power, and anointing, and freedom… all the things that we see in the book of Acts, and we read about in times of revival and restoration in the body of Christ. Many times when we’re preaching about revival and talking about revival I say to people “I don’t think that we should use the word revival, I think we should use the word normal because we should be praying for normal.” So many times when there is revival breaking out that’s what should be going on all the time…
Sid: And it should not be happening in the 4 walls, if anything it should be happening outside of the 4 walls of the church.
Dr. Morgan: Well and that’s another thing most people fail to understand is that the church is not the building. Another revelation, if you will or insight the Lord gave me, as we were talking one day to some church elders in New York City. Talking about this whole dynamic of aberrancy and what does it mean and how does it affect us? What God wants to do in His body, I saw a picture of a church, a classic country church you know with a pitched roof and a steeple. As I was looking in my spirit I saw this building and all of a sudden it split from top to bottom, it split in half. From the base of this split this enormous tree emerged, and I heard in my spirit the Lord say “I’m going to deliver to the body of Christ from the spirit of the Christian religion.” When He spoke that to me it was like things started popping off that Christianity as it has been practiced, not the doctrines of our faith, but the way the religion we call Christianity has been practiced was… there was a spirit an actual demonic principality that had so influenced the church, the real body of Christ, that we practiced in so many ways the wrong things, done the wrong things, and wondered why we’re not getting the results; we’re seeing the fruit, we’re not seeing the gifts; we’re not seeing the demonstration of the kingdom that was so clearly promised to us by Jesus, and by Paul and we saw demonstrated. We’ve seen down through church history believers expressing the kingdom of God and literally change nations.
Sid: I know you’ve heard this expression, but the definition of insanity is to keep to doing the same thing and expect different results.
Dr. Morgan: Right, absolutely.
Sid: I have to go back to that word because I was not familiar with the word that you used. You said “That Christianity has become an aberrant religion.”
Dr. Morgan: Yes.
Sid: And the word aberrant means deviated from the pattern. So perhaps that’s where I’d like to start.
Dr. Morgan: Good.
Sid: Where did we deviate from the pattern, and what is the pattern?
Dr. Morgan: Well I think in simple, and I tried to ask the Lord to keep things simple because I’m not the smartest guy in the pack, and I’m always asking the Lord “Help me to understand this.” What He did was take me back to Colossians chapter 1 where Paul writes, and I believe this is his philosophy of ministry. That is what was he doing, and why was he doing it. He writes in the end of Colossians that he does everything he can by the wisdom and power of God to bring people to maturity in the Messiah. Everything the church is supposed to do, the environment that we’re supposed to be creating in our meetings is supposed to be conducive, that environment is supposed to be conducive for helping people grow. Instead, so much of what goes on in church can really be described as theatre, religious theatre, it’s a show. You know, I was in England ministering a few months ago and went to the Centennial celebration of the Liverpool Cathedral. The bishop in his talk about the mission of the cathedral, and the vision of the cathedral; he actually said that the cathedral was literally spiritual theatre that everything that goes on in the cathedral, and the way the architecture and its design from the high altar even out to the gargoyles, was all to represent the invisible realm in a visible way, it was theatre. I sat there Sid and my mouth was open because he was saying exactly what I have been hearing from the Holy Spirit. Instead of us experiencing the reality we’ve settled for something that was a ritual, or something that was simply an expression of what should be a reality. There was not the power so we had something that talked about power, or something that modeled it but it really didn’t demonstrate it.
Sid: Now you and I both have studied early church history and we know where we moved from the norm, but we literally went away from Jewish roots of the faith. We know that the church went away from the Jewish roots of the faith for very bad reasons…
Dr. Morgan: Right.
Sid: But they did, basically for anti-Semitic type reasons. What did they substitute instead of the Hebraic roots? Then let’s talk about what they should have kept.
Dr. Morgan: Right. When the church moved into the Greco-Roman world they began to be influenced by the philosophies of the Greeks and the Romans. Greek philosophy was very very seductive. The Jews were seduced if you will by Hellenistic philosophies you know in the times of the Maccabees. There were Hellenistic Jews that became very secular. They were brought into the web of deception of Greco-Roman philosophy…
Sid: Is that that religious spirit you’ve been talking about that’s so seductive?
Dr. Morgan: Yeah that spirit uses that because the devil… you know the devil will use any lie he can to move people even one degree away from the call of God. If you move just one degree away, if you believe one lie, that one lie, that one degree of separation from the truth of God, as you move on in your life that one degree takes you hundreds and hundreds of miles away from your appointed destiny. Like that letter “V” at the base of the “V” your right there doing what God wants, but one little lie, one even wrong thought starts taking you off on a path that diverges that becomes aberrant it moves away from the pattern. So when the church moved into the Greco-Roman world with power and signs and wonders, little by little, this stuff doesn’t happen in a day the philosophies of the Greeks and Romans began to influence the church. In a nutshell, the essence of platonic, if you will, our statillion philosophy is “That I think, therefore I am. Man is the measure of everything if it makes me feel good, if I like it it’s good.”
Sid: So they are the originators of what is called “Seeker Sensitive?”
Dr. Morgan: Yep, absolutely.
Sid: Versus God sensitive. Tell you what we’re out of time…
Sid: My guest this week is a Jewish believer in Jesus her name is Sandy Teplinski she’s a Jewish Believer in the Messiah. She’s an attorney and I’m speaking to her in her home in Anaheim, California and she’s just written a book called “Why Care About Israel.” I would have to believe that the devil has done a masterful job of confusion using the press primarily. And even Christians are totally confused on God’s plan for the nation Israel. And I have to tell you as a child of God I want to know God’s plan and I want to be on God’s side and with all this confusion we need the facts. Sandy most Christians don’t have a clue on the history of the Palestinian Israeli conflict. Most Christians don’t even know where the name Palestine came from. Most Christians don’t even know that the generation called Palestinians most of them never even lived in Israel they just came to Israel for jobs and even Arafat was an Egyptian; he wasn’t even a Palestinian. See if we can make some sense out of this. I know that if they read your book they’ll get it all clear but briefly tell, me a bit about the history of that land.
Sandra: We really can’t understand Israel’s modern history Sid unless we go back to its biblical roots. And the biblical roots of the conflict between Jews and Arabs. And of course that’s going to take us all the way back to Abraham’s sons Isaac and Ishmael. Ishmael as most of us know was the son of Abraham and Hagar who was an Egyptian. And Ishmael grew up believing that he was the child of promise. He grew up for 13 years believing that he was going to inherit God’s promises that He had made to Abraham. Then on course Isaac does come along, Sarah does get miraculously pregnant at a very ripe old age. Isaac comes along and in Ishmael’s eyes he usurps all the promises that God had made to Abraham to be inherited to be inherited by his son. The scriptures tell us that Ishmael began to resent and mock Isaac who he began to see as his rival. Now we can understand… just to side track a bit we can all understand and relate to the sense of rejection and the pain that Ishmael must have gone through. None the less he allowed that to fester into a bitterroot to the extent that he and his mother Hagar were eventually told by Abraham who heard from God to leave the household. And so we eventually encounter Isaac and Ismael again when Abraham dies. And we see that the two of them are standing shoulder to shoulder. But there’s no evidence in scripture that they have reconciled their differences. We revisit the conflict again when we see Esau and Jacob at odds with each other and again there’s a time of reconciliation between the two of them. But none the less they still go their separate ways. Now through the centuries, and of course not exclusively through Ishmael gave birth to many other sons through his second wife Keturah and all of those people became collectively known in the scriptures as the Arab peoples. And we see in the scriptures the Arabs pretty much continually at enmity with the Jewish people. And we read in the scriptures God’s wrath being roused against the Arab nations on account of their enmity towards Israel. Now if we can fast forward several centuries you know and kind of fast forward past the Jewish exile, the exile from Israel. Which by the way not all Jews left Israel during the exile; there has always been a continuous Jewish presence in Israel proper through the centuries through the millennia. Let’s fast forward now to World War II okay let’s stop at World War I. World War I the whole Middle East was ruled by the Ottoman Turks. The Ottoman Turks sided with Germany in World War I and lost the war. As a result of losing the war the league of nations, which was in essence the predecessor to the United Nations, divided up the whole Middle East and distributed portions of the land to different countries such as France and England. And England the British Great Britain ended up with the mandate to hold Israel which was not yet called Israel it was called Palestine. And I’ll get to that in a moment. To hold that land in trust to create the Jewish State. The reason Israel was called Palestine is that Israel’s enemies, the Romans. The Roman’s that were responsible for dispersing Israel out of the Land specifically named it Palestine in mocking remembrance of Israel’s ancient and extinct; and let me repeat extinct enemy the Philistines. It has nothing to do with the existence or the nonexistence of any so called Palestinian people ethnic group. They’re has never been an independent polity by the name of Palestine that was self-ruled of governed by a Palestinian people. Okay, back to where we were (Laughing). The British issued a mandate called the Belfour Declaration after World War I which stated that Israel would be held; I’m sorry Palestine would be held in trust for the Jewish people and a Jewish state would be created out of it. However due to Arab pressure at the very declaration of the Belfour Declaration and the fact that some pioneer Zionist were beginning to relocate to the land to redevelop it. England ended up giving away unilaterally almost 80% of the land that the nations collectively through the league of nations had given to Great Britain to hold in trust for the Jewish people. So we’re left now with approximately 20% of the amount of land that originally the nations allocated to Israel. On that 20% sliver of land there are both Arab and Jews living. During World War II Great Britain prevented many many more Jews that wanted to settle there from actually settling there. In the meantime there’s Zionist Jews there that are helping to build the land. And they’re reclamation of the land is what brought other Arabs from surrounding nations to settle in Palestine. Because with the reclamation of the land came a higher standard of living; hospitals, institutions that endured the Jewish portion of Palestine a more developed and hospitable environment than any of the other Arab surrounding nations. And so by the time Israel is declared a State in 1948 we have many many Jews living there of course. And we have about 650,000 Arabs living within Israel proper. Many if not most and by all reasonable documentation it is most of these Arabs have only very recently immigrated from other Arab countries attracted by better employment opportunities stemming from Jewish development of the land. When Israel was declared a State Israel pleaded with the Arabs to stay and to live with them peaceably side by side. However the Arab leaders; the Muslim leaders; the Arab leaders from surrounding nations, remember there are no Arab Palestinian leaders now because they don’t exist as an independent people there. They just kind of nomads that have kind of wandered into Israel proper because of the opportunities the Jews gave them basically for a better life. None the less these folks were told by the Arab leaders from outside that they should leave Israel; they should go camp out somewhere else because all the Arab nations surrounding Israel were going to run the Jewish State into the sea. And before long and it was just a matter of days the whole of Israel would turn into just another Arab nation. Well, as you and I and our listeners know that did not happen. The Arab nations did not win what has since come to be known as Israel’s War of Independence. In the meantime all of these other Arab refugees who fled their homes voluntarily at the behest of their Arab leaders not as the instruction of the new Israeli government found themselves camped out as refugees. Now what’s critical to know is that the Israeli government began to negotiate for the full repatriations of all of these refugees. Israel said “Okay, it’s enough we want you to come back; just come back go back to your homes and live peacefully with us. However they could not find a negotiating partner. And the reason; the primary reason that they could not find anyone to negotiate with among the Palestinian refugees or the Arab nation is simply that the Arabs refused to negotiate with Israel is because to do so would have inherently acknowledged recognized existence or Israel’s right to exist as a State. So the Arab’s consistently refused the right of return that was essentially offered to them back in 1949; beginning in 1949. And so you know critical to all of this is that we need to understand that the Palestinian plight is not the cause of Arab enmity toward Israel it is a result of it. Now having said all of this I need to say that Israel is not… I’m not accusing Israel committing of no sin whatsoever with respect to the Palestinians. There were a few scattered isolated instances of radical Israeli soldiers that were kind of out of control and contrary to the instructions from their higher ups did unfairly and unreasonably…
Sid: Sandy I have to stop right now we’re out of time. Listen Mishpochah this is history; this isn’t fabrication this is history you must understand the history. But even more important you must understand what God has to say in this situation. Because if you’re on the wrong side on this situation you’re on the wrong side with God. Get the facts. Why care about Israel.
Sid: My guest is red hot for the Messiah her name is Vickie Faurie. I’m speaking to her at her home in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. I’ll tell ya that if you’d gone through the experience that she had as a 13 year old you’d be red hot for the Messiah too. A year earlier just out of the blue her body started shutting down; her organs shut down. She couldn’t eat; she went down to 52 pounds. The Doctor said “Prepare for her death,” she only had a couple of weeks to live. There was pain throughout her body; her body was deformed she couldn’t walk; she was totally crippled. And she went to a Kathryn Kuhlman service and literally the fire of God hit her. And she was not gradually, she was instantly healed. She went and had a nice meal; she slept fine. She not only could walk she ran; before that it was impossible her limbs were deformed. And so she knows what miracles are. And yet Vickie Faurie you told me off the air that you were backslidden. How does someone go from that type of miracle to being backslidden?
Vickie: Well Sid when I received that miracle I was 13 and in between that time I was Baptist and I went to various Baptist churches sharing my message. Of course the Baptist Church that I was in had to embrace it fully because they saw the before and after. And a lot at that timeframe did not embrace it and so they didn’t believe it and so for while I did not share my message. And then I proceeded onward; and I did become… I left the Baptist and I went Assembly of God. But I got mixed up just before I got married with the wrong crowd of people. I’ll tell you it whosever you dwell with and associate with that if you are not strong enough in the Lord they can sway you and I was not strong enough. And they swayed me; rather than me swaying them they swayed me because I wasn’t anchored enough yet. I didn’t understand things; I didn’t understand the death position. I didn’t understand how to deny myself and take up my cross and follow Him. And I knew I was healed; I knew about the power of God but yet at the same time I was being taught within the religious society that Jesus would accept me no matter what and all I’d have to do is go ask forgiveness and I’d be forgiven and I could do whatever I wanted.
Sid: How does this differ from the Word; share a few scriptures.
Vickie: Well, the word declares; the one word that really struck out that hit me full force I’m going to share with you. And it’s in Matthew 7 it’s Jesus speaking in 21. “Not everyone who says to me ‘Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven but only…’” and the Lord had me underline the word only; “Only he who does the will…and then He told me to underline he who does the will. “Only he who does the will of My Father who is in Heaven.” Because I was calling Him Lord and He stopped me one day and He said “Do not call me Lord because I’m not your Lord.” And I said “But Lord, I started naming things that I had done for His Kingdom.” He said “You did nothing for you are nothing; I’d done all of those things and I can use a donkey.” He said “I want you to know I only use yielded empty vessels.”
Sid: You know I’ve read these scriptures the same ones you’re quoting and everyone that’s a true believer has read these scriptures.
Vickie: Hmm, hm.
Sid: And somehow because very few people are walking in such union with God; and that’s what the word is. So few Christians have died to self that you let it slide by. I have a question for you “Are we waiting for God to change us or is God waiting on us?”
Vickie: He’s waiting on us. God changes not; He’s the same yesterday today and forever. It’s are we changing; we have to become the bride without spot wrinkle or blemish. We have to be purified; sanctified; holy; totally yielded to Him.
Sid: I have to ask you this question; you understand this now you are not backslidden now. Do you feel like you’ve sacrificed a lot by dying to self? Do you feel like you’ve missed important things in your life by sacrificing to self?
Vickie: No. Really the death to self-position when you have the Holy Spirit and Jesus and everything within you it’s worth more than anything else in the world. There’s nothing that can compare to when you die to self to know how much you love God; how sweet Jesus is, and the love of Jesus and the Holy Spirit. I mean all of that you can’t measure it. If you were to take and put it and measure it it far outweighs the balances of anything the world itself has to offer.
Sid: As best you can describe this Vickie “What is your understanding of dying to self?”
Vickie: Total surrender of your will to the Father’s will. Really it’s where you no longer; you submit yourself into the Makers hand. I mean it’s no longer you that is in control. You’re no longer telling the maker how to mold you; how to make you; how to form you; how to create you.
Sid: Your telling me that you’re going to be in a totally satisfied state ,whereas in the world in the natural, if you’re an alcoholic or a drug addict you have to keep getting stronger alcohol the stronger alcohol or stronger drugs to be satisfied. But you’re saying you’re walking in such union with God that you’re totally satisfied.
Vickie: Yes, exactly and utter peace. There’s a peace that passes literally your understanding. There’s a deep peace and joy unspeakable. I mean when Jesus said “he only came to say and do the will of the Father for a long time I couldn’t understand that scripture. I couldn’t understand why Jesus came in the form of mankind. I know He came to die for us but why; why, why did He come and live His life as man in total complete submission counting Himself as nothing? He was showing us that if we would just submit to the Maker and do the will of the Father that is where everything… that is where everything flows. There’s a river of peace as you lay yourself upon the altar of sacrifice and you sacrifice yourself and you give everything. There’s a peace that just cannot be described. There’s a love for all of all mankind and you love them with everything that’s within you.
Sid: And you know what you sound like? I come from a Jewish background and you sound like you’re living what in Judaism is called the Sh’ma. It’s Deuteronomy 6:4 “Hear Oh Israel the Lord our God; the Lord is One. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart; all your mind; all your strength.” And then there’s another verse which Jesus couples with that when He was asked “How do you fulfill the law?” Jesus said the Sh’ma and then He said “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” And I’ll tell you candidly Vickie I have been praying that every day that I’d be able to walk in that because to me that’s the ultimate. That’s what Jesus said.
Vickie: That’s right and all you have to do. And so many times I would get up and I prayed one simple prayer for a long time and I said “Lord give me a heart like Your Son where I’ll walk according to Your will and I’ll love just like He loved” unconditionally.
Sid: But did it hurt; did you suffer in a real bad way to get to this point?
Vickie: I’ll be truthful with you Sid.
Vickie: First it was very difficult and God told me “I’m going to strip you down to nothing. If you want this it may cost you everything you have.”
Sid: Now I don’t want to get too personal but can you give me an example of what you lost.
Vickie: Well the enemy of course when you enter into this arena the principality powers and rulers of darkness are going to fight. I’m not going to let somebody believe that they’re not in for a battle. But at the same time the victory is yours in Christ Jesus. The cost of it in reference to certain things Satan tried to make us in a number of things make it look like we were going to be destroyed. That everything was going to be taken away. And I would fervently stand and pray to God; the seeking Him in reference to a certain attack. If it were my children; if it was my youngest child or my oldest child or my daughter-in-law or even up until recently he even attacked my grandson. I would pray fervently on their behalf.
Sid: Who won?
Sid: Okay we’re out of time Mishpochah…
Sid: You know it’s kind of difficult in 21st Century America because the gospel has been so watered down just because the discipleship has been so watered down; that I just recently read Charisma Magazine and I saw an article in here that peaked my interest written by a man that I’ve interviewed previously. The title of the article is “Why Isn’t the American Church Growing?” The author, Kevin Turner president of Strategic World Impact. He works in primarily 3 areas; war zones; disaster areas, and where Christians are being persecuted. Kevin where am I speaking to you from right now?
Kevin: Well, I’m calling you from Africa, the continent of Africa. I’m right on the border of Sudan where we’ve been working now for actually here for almost 10 years, from this area the last 5 years.
Sid: Now listen; I have a problem with the watered down discipleship; seeker sensitive Christianity in America. If I have a problem I imagine you have a bigger problem; how did we get from the Book to what we have?
Kevin: Well, I think one of reasons is just simply the fact that people thought that by lowering the bar; lowering the bar of discipleship that we could possibly increase the numbers. And it’s indicative of our society because when you talk to a pastor or anyone else, the church leader the first thing they want to tell them is how big their church is. We’re not interested in quantity; I’m interested in quality. And what I see all the time is we’re just fascinated with the showmanship of everything. So to do that we have to have these secret sensitive churches that literally alienate and destroy the very foundations of the Word of God so that we can have these want-to-be disciples that truly have never been born again!
Sid: But you know what, I think many have been born again but they stay babies.
Kevin: Well, all I know two things that are indicative of a baby; when that baby comes out of its mother’s womb 1: he’ll cry and 2: he longs for milk. Peter said “As new born babes desire the sincere milk of the word.” And I have hard time believing that we can call people that say that they are born again that they have no desire to be in fellowship; they have no desire for the word of God; they don’t cry out to the father or mother. See what I mean; they’re not crying to Father God saying “God touch me; fill me; cleanse me; purify me.” So there are no signs other than this; we teach them how to be religious; we teach them how to pray; we bribe them to come to church; we pick them up and bring them there; we take them to lunch afterwards. And really what we have is flesh born of flesh; it’s not spirit born of the Spirit.
Sid: In America it’s an unreal moment in history. There has never been a country where the average person is as prosperous, almost lives not almost, lives like a king of former generations. We basically don’t have any persecution. Yes we had 911 but basically we’re like in a bubble. I want you to tell me a bit about what’s going on in the rest of the world.
Kevin: Well, first of all let me address the whole issue of persecution. Scripture plainly states in Timothy that anyone who desires to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. And unfortunately most American’s do nothing with that verse; it’s almost as if it were never written. I believe that even in America you can live your life in such a red hot way; such a passionate way that you do receive persecution. Now it may not be the same as Sudan, or Saudi Arabia, or Naro Trayo, or many of the countries that I’ve worked in but there’s alienation. I think one of the big things I see is that we don’t want to see our good reputation. We don’t want to be thought less of than what we think we’re worth. But what I see around the world is the contrast to that. I mean we’re baptizing Muslim converts who were fundamentalists. That what baptism means to them is more than being buried with Christ in baptism and raised to walk in newness of life through the power of the Holy Spirit. It means the threat of death, it means utter alienation from your family; it means that husbands can have their wives taken away. It means their children can be taken away. It means that Jesus becomes their all and all.
Sid: Let me read a short paragraph from your article “Why Isn’t the American Church Growing?” A Chinese Christian recently visited the United States and toured churches here. At the end of the trip he was asked what American spirituality? He answered “I’m amazed at how much the church in America can accomplish without the Holy Spirit.”
Kevin: Yeah; unfortunately that tends to be the case and I think…
Sid: That reminds me of a top Christian television personality that fell and ended up in prison and I went to visit him in prison. And I talked about some of the large media ministries in the United States and I said “You know they’ve to be from God because look how big they are; look at how big they’re growing so much!” And he looked at me and he almost laughed and he said “Listen, when you’ve got the gifting from God you can build any size organization that you want to and God doesn’t even have to be in it.”
Kevin: That’s correct.
Sid: It’s sad.
Kevin: Unfortunately, you just hit a heartstring of mine because I believe that many of the ministers of America in my own heart believe me this thing lurks. Where we literally have the potential to prostitute the graces of God. In other words, God touches us His gifts and call are without repentance. He desires through love to touch us that we might be used for His glory but what happens in the end we’re building our own kingdoms we’re prostituting His graces and in the end we’re lifted up in pride, we come under the same condemnation as the devil and we’re pushed from His presence. And I believe that part of the key to why America isn’t experiencing revival one of the reasons is that simply God can’t trust us with His Holy Spirit. I remember one time I was praying and in fact I was asking the Lord about healing for certain people and I’m in the shower taking a shower and getting all cleaned. And really basically what I’m doing is trying to get the Lord to use me to heal some people and I remember he spoke to me so gently and it cut me like a knife He said “Kevin would you want those people to be healed if nobody knew you were involved?”
Sid: Hmm; that nails you. (Laughing)
Kevin: My heart was broken; you know what’s the sense of glory if you don’t get any of it right? And this is the thing that can affect my heart; that can affect your heart. The battle that I face as a minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ isn’t failure; the battle I face is success. I remember one time we were shipping supplies into Serbia. They were under sanctions; they were under Resolution 724 with the UN and I had special clearance to ship in medical supplies and various things. And I was billed as the wonder boy; boy if anyone could get it in Kevin could. And I remember that my containers was sitting in Piraeus, Greece one of the largest shipping ports in the world. I’m supposed to get these things up to Serbia. I had 2 weeks and I was going to travel through there and fly out of Budapest. Well nothing was moving; I’m staying at this old Bible School as the top floor and again and again nothing moved day after day. I spent over $24,000, I was personally in debt and literally each day here’s what I noticed my prayers at the end of the day got shorter and shorter. And finally I came down crawled up those stairs; fell down on that creaky wooden floor just me and Jesus and I prayed one of the truest prayers I ever prayed in my life. All I said was this “Why?” The Lord spoke to me as clear as a bell, He said “Kevin you don’t want those containers in there for those people you want those containers in there so you look good.” And this is what the Lord taught me and I pray to God I never forget. He said “You know what Kevin, everybody wants to be My personal success story.”
Kevin: But nobody’s interested in being a failure for me. And there on that floor all alone in Greece I had a good old fashion death, burial, and resurrection. And before Jesus I saw my arrogance and my vanity and my pride. And I cried out “From this day forward I resign myself to be content to be your personal failure.” And what I mean by that is not that God destroys everything around you it’s that your content not to look good. It’s that you’re content to be faithful whether the world applauds you or not. So success is the biggest danger that I have ever seen in my life. So unfortunately, this corporate world mentality has consumed the average pastor because he’s sees a couple mega-churches on TV and they logged themselves as the next approach. And the next thing you know every bodies lining up and your making these gospel puppet preachers who have no unction; no anointing of the Holy Spirit because they’ve just looked at a program or a method. But the Bible said “God calls a man.” And this is what I see in my own heart and the nation; this is the thing that I see, and it breaks my heart.
Sid: Mishpochah I’m speaking to Kevin Turner President of Strategic World Impact. He works in war zones and disaster areas or areas where Christians are being persecuted. Knowing how he lays his life on the line; his family’s life on the line because they’re with him on the field. And hearing how broken he is and how repetitive he is (Woe is me). You know what Isaiah stood before the throne he says “Woe is me I’m undone; I’m an unclean man amongst an unclean people; I’ve seen the King.”
Sid: We are playing selections from “Song of Angels Volume I and Volume II” by Freddy Hayler. And Freddy tell me about that Al Qaeda terrorist that literally got saved from your music.
Freddy: Well, I got a very strange echo call with a man with a very strong Arabic accent calling me from Afghanistan. You know it was an amazing phone call it was 2:00 in the morning 3:00 in the morning. And he was saying how he had a vision in a dream of Jesus listening to this music and he called it Jesus music. He didn’t call it Song of Angels. And he said “He had gotten saved and that the Lord had come to him in a vision in a dream 2 nights straight and that he had accepted Christ as his savior and his whole family. And he explained that he was a terrorist, Al Qaeda affiliate, and he was in Afghanistan and that they were planning some attacks and he was full of love and he didn’t want to hurt anyone any longer. And later I heard that he had snuck out of Pakistan via England; and now I hear he’s in the United States and I need to follow up on that. But we have had a lot of testimonies like this of people from the Middle East meeting Christ through the music and God just using it as a wedge because it’s a 10/40 window and it’s a tough mission field to crack. It’s actually death penalty to hand out Christian tracks in some of these countries and so it supersedes that and transcends that.
Sid: Now I want people to get to know you a little bit; it seems as though people that have strong calls of God on their life the devil tries to snuff their life out before they even get started. But let me take you back to age 5; you had a reoccurring dream; what was that?
Freddy: Yes, it seems like each night or every other night and I had a reoccurring dream of me being caught up in the stars of Heaven and seeing the multicolor stars; they were multicolored. And I would actually see 3-dimensional notes, musical notes skipping along these stars. These beautiful sounds; theatrical sounds that sounded Heavenly to me or peaceful. And they were just beautiful multicolored notes and stars; and it just seemed like they were from Heaven. But I didn’t know at the time what it meant and it was just symbolism of some kind that God was giving me as a very very young person.
Sid: And I think that the devil might have heard it too because at age 11 you’re on a row boat and you’re 2 miles off shore and you fall out of the boat and your drowning. How in the world were you rescued?
Freddy: That is probably the greatest miracle even to think about it I shudder because you know I was showing off to someone in the boat how fast I could row and I fell backwards. And the current up there is very fast and the water is 60 degrees or below. And so you can get hypothermia real fast. Kind of idiotically as a kid I dove off the boat to get the oars and by the time I got the oars the boat had floated far away. And after about 10 minutes of trying to doggy paddle I just started to go under the water. And as I started to go under the water I started to see lights and I thought; “This is it I’m dying.” And all of a sudden I felt the pressure on my hair pulling me up. And I was pulled up to the surface by this man who came out of nowhere. And he just dragged me to shore 2 miles in and when I got to the beach I was revived. I went to thank the man and he looked like someone I had known before but he’d left. And the woman were all around me and they were saying “We were praying for you, we saw you struggling we thought you drowned; the angels were with you today that must have been an angel.” And that was all I could remember and I thought wow; maybe that was an angel but I never met him again.
Sid: I don’t know I think you might have met him again at age 15; you’re into drugs you’re a rock musician and you take an overdose and you’re driving in a car and what happened?
Freddy: So we were going around this curve at 50 miles an hour and I was overdosed on this very powerful drug and the car door swung open and I fell out the door on to hard concrete going over 50. And angels I knew just picked me up and prevented me from getting injured because I had no injuries but just a couple small scratches. I actually stopped breathing as well, and then came the vision of Jesus and I was quickly resuscitated. So you know the police and my family were surprised by it all but it was a miracle.
Sid: Tell me about the song “Holy Spirit Please Come” from your album “Song of Angels.
Freddy: Well, Jesus says in John 16 that He’s is going to give us another Comforter; you know the Paraclete the one to come along side and help us in everyday life continuously 24-7 and He’s our best friend and He’s the one that speaks Jesus and that glorifies Him. And you know it’s just a song about being filled with the Holy Spirit and being baptized in the Spirit of Elijah and the Spirit of Fire, and drawing closer to the Lord in this hour as His bride. And it talks about purifying our hearts and how gentle He is and how He wants to fill us with His blessings, and His peace and His joy and His righteousness.
Sid: What does the pure worship that I’m hearing in your music; what does that attract from Heaven?
Freddy: Well, I truly believe that it attracts the presence of the Holy Spirit; the presence of His angels because all the angels in Heaven praise Him. All the stars of Heaven sing for joy and they love when you worship God it’s the highest form of intercession, Andrew Murray said and E.M. Bounds. They said that prayer is the highest form of intercession and adoration and worship. And so if it’s the highest form of prayer, worship. Then you’re going to be joined by the heavenly host and feel their presence. You’re going to feel the presence of the Holy Spirit.
Sid: Do you feel the angels the angels are singing right along with your; I’m curious.
Freddy: Yes, and when I sing I actually have heard angels sing with loud clarion voices and they’re beautiful beyond description.
Sid: Okay, from Songs of Angles. “Holy Spirit Please Come.”
Sid: I have on the telephone my sister Shirley and my brother-in-law Marc who have made Aliyah. They have immigrated to Israel and there’s no reason they should have gone short of what you’re going to hear especially with the life they had in America. Especially with what is going on in Israel right now. They were successful she retired as a school teacher at Montgomery County Maryland and one of the wealthiest counties in the United States. Good retirement program, my brother-in-in-law Marc retired from the government Customs Service. Good retirement program; they have savings, they have 3 children 2 are married; they have grandchildren; they have wonderful children; they have wonderful family and their financially independent these are the wonderful, most wonderful years of their life to look forward to be with their children and grandchildren. And all of a sudden my sister who never remembers dreams had such a vivid dream. Out of curiosity Shirley were you thinking about going to Israel when you had that dream? Were you planning on it?
Shirley: No, we had no plans at all to move to Israel; we did love Israel; we had been there a few times in fact our youngest son was bar-mitzvah’ed in Israel, but we never thought in a millions years we’d move to Israel until we had this dream.
Sid: Tell me the dream again.
Shirley: Okay, well when I said we had this dream my husband agreed with the dream. The dream was Marc turns to me in the dream and says “Shirley we have to go to Israel now.” And I said “Okay, that’s fine, however we’ll go in a year from now; we’ll sell our house, we’ll cash in on our assets our stocks, bonds, all our annuities and we’ll go to Israel.” He turns to me and says “Shirley, we have to go now!” And I started getting a little anxious in the dream and I said “Well, how about 6 months from now? We can sell our house at least and go with some of our money.”
Sid: By the way my sister has a very very practical side; go ahead. (Laughing)
Shirley: (Laughing) You know I was saying this in the dream, “We’ve saved all our lives for our retirement and how can we just leave it here we have to cash some of it in. And Marc turns to me again and says “No, we have to go now!” And I really got anxious and again I went through the scenario; “Let’s wait just two months, you know cash in something.” And then Marc says to me “Shirley you are putting your trust in your money, and not in God.” And something in the Spirit just clicked in the dream and I said “You’re right I was trusting our money rather than God.” And at that point we each picked up just one suitcase; we held hands and we went running to the plane for Israel. I looked behind me and I saw fires; I saw rioting going on, I knew my life was in danger. I felt somebody was chasing us and I was running with all my might to that plane to get out of the United States and we just made the last plane to Israel. And that’s when I woke up and I woke up I was actually huffing and puffing like I had actually ran in that dream. So and then afterword’s when I discussed this dream with Marc we felt God was telling us we should start preparing to go to Israel. And we were both in agreement with it and you know the dream also made us think of Jeremiah 16:16 where it says “God says I will first send fisherman and then I will send the hunters.” And I felt the hunters were after us and we were running with everything we had to get away from them. So that’s when we started making plans and we started going to Israel looking for a place to maybe invest some money there at first. And then God showed us we should start our citizenship while we were there.
Sid: Do you remember a brother-in-law when he heard that dream he said, “You got to go, you have to go yesterday.” Every time I would walk up to you I would say that because God knows we’re all made different. Here’s the way I operate “I have a dream, I will do what that dream says the second I get it. My sister on the other hand is the more conservative, practical person, planning things out. But all of your conservatism every one of your friends was shocked when you told them you were moving to Israel.
Shirley: Especially our sons they couldn’t believe it.
Sid: Yeah, and by the way one son is an engineer an attorney; he has a top very high government job. Another son, is a dentist and another son has a wonderful job with the federal government. They’re all successful.
Shirley: Sid you don’t know this but he’s just enrolled in an MBA program; he’s getting his Master’s now.
Sid: And with your grandchildren I mean I don’t think anything short of God could have caused you to leave your family Shirley.
Shirley: In the natural why would we want to leave we love them so much; we’re a very close family. God just gave us both my husband and myself such a desire.
Sid: Now when you decided to go when you finally made up your mind you put your house on the market; how long did it take to sell?
Shirley: (Laughing) Well, let me preface this first before I tell you. Our Real Estate Agent told us one price what we should sell out house for and we prayed about it and felt we should ask for like 40,000 more, it was ridiculous.
Sid: $40,000 more!
Shirley: We said “Put it on the market for this amount.” She said “It will never sell.” We said “We’ll try it for a week and if it doesn’t sell we’ll change it.” You know our house sold in 1 day!
Sid: Tell, me what you recall, you cut all your ties; said all your goodbye’s no one believes that you’re going that you’ll turn around and come back. Number 1 how long ago was that?
Shirley: Three years ago.
Sid: Number 2 “When it’s final you’re on the El Al jet and your flying to Israel; you have cut all your ties.
Shirley: Sid, can I go back just one little thing I need to tell you; when we made Aliyah it was at the peak of the Intifada, there was suicide bombings there every single day; sometimes more than one a day.
Sid: Wait a second; remember that girl 30 years earlier with that demon of fear do you remember that? You should have been fearful!
Shirley: I turned to Marc like a week before we were to go and I said “Maybe this isn’t the right time to go; you know common sense says you don’t go into a war zone.” And that’s how the news was presenting it; it’s like a war zone over there and fear started coming on me. I was thinking “Maybe we should wait until it dies down a little bit and not so many suicide bombings over there.” And so Marc and I prayed about it and we went to bed and we woke up the next morning and you know “All fear left me.” And I looked at Marc and said “No, this is when we’re supposed to go; I just no it.” And I felt God was saying “There are other believers over in the land who are fearful too because of the suicide bombings and because God took away all that fear from me that was trying to come on me we should lay hands on other believers who are fearful who are in the land and they also would be relieved of that fear if wouldn’t bother them anymore.”
Sid: Okay, you’re on that El Al jet
Shirley: Hm hm.
Sid: You’ve cut all your ties you’re walking into what appears to be a war-zone. What’s going on inside of you?
Shirley: We are as excited as can be this is our biggest adventure with God that we’ve ever had. We feel like God has sent us there; we’re not even 100% sure now why we’re there but we know…
Sid: Oops we’re out of time… I want to pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.
Sid: If you’ve been listening to me all this week you know why I’m red hot for the Messiah. I cannot relate to a backslider; if you only knew what was back there you would run and get so tight with Jesus that nothing would separate you from the love of God but you can certainly separate yourself because God is a holy God. That’s why He says “Be ye holy for I am holy saith the Lord God.” And I was one unholy mess.
A Jewish man that had left his wife; separated from my wife; left my daughter separated from my job. Went searching for happiness; found myself in the New Age in a pit that I could not get out of and no one else could help me get out of it. When there was nowhere else to go I cried out to God “Jesus help.” And I didn’t have a vision; I had all sorts of stuff like that in the New Age. Jesus didn’t come visit me; I had all types of manifestations in the New Age. I had something that was never offered me in the New Age. I experienced the peace and the glory of the Spirit of God. I experienced being cleansed by the Spirit of God. And I knew that I knew that I knew that Jesus rescued me. That I knew; that I knew; that I knew; that Jesus was my Messiah. Don’t even ask me how I knew it; I can just tell you that I knew it. And then I heard for the first time in my life the audible voice of God. What He said was “Return to your wife and daughter.” I had been separated for a year and I didn’t want to do it because our marriage wasn’t good. But I was so grateful to God; He saved my life; He rescued me. I’d be dead, or in an institution, or in prison today if it wasn’t for Jesus. And to whom much is given much is required. And I returned go my wife and daughter and God restored my marriage.
We started one of the first Messianic Jewish congregations in the United States. A group of young Jewish people that were believers in Jesus. We didn’t know anything. We hadn’t even read the whole New Testament but we started this and it’s still going on today. And in this Messianic congregation we hired our first Rabbi his name was Manny Brotman. And he began presenting Jesus from the Old Testament. Although my wife was Southern Baptist she rejected all of that and became an agnostic in college with all the atheistic professors. And then she converted… when we got married I insisted she convert to Judaism and she converted to Orthodox Judaism. But she didn’t know Jesus; well I dragged her literally to this Messianic congregation and week after week Manny would say “Look at the scriptures written thousands of years before the events actually transpired. Look at the Jewish people; here God’s says that we would lose our country because of sin, we’d be scattered to the four corners of the earth. Wherever we would go people would persecute us for being Jewish. And yet we would not assimilate there would still be a distinct people group called the Jewish people. In the latter days Isaiah asked a rhetorical question “Could a nation be formed in a day?” And from the 4 corners of the earth the Jewish people which God miraculously preserved would return to their homeland. And all this has happened before our very eyes. I mean 100’s of predictions about the Jewish people all came true. And then 100’s of predictions about the Messiah of Israel and it could only be Jesus.
When Isaiah 53 was read; written 800 years before Jesus came to earth. Anyone with a fair mind reads that; that’s why it’s not read in the synagogues but it’s certainly in the Jewish scriptures; Isaiah 52. It’s really interesting Isaiah 52 is read in the traditional synagogue and Isaiah 54 is read in the traditional synagogue but no Isaiah 53. It nails Jesus as the Messiah. My wife said “I must believe. It’s overwhelming that Jesus is the Messiah,” and she had her own encounter. And so God restored my marriage. I mean the devil was out to kill and steal and destroy everything decent within me. And he almost succeeded. He wanted to destroy my mind; he almost did it. He wanted to destroy my marriage. He almost did it; he wanted to destroy my daughter. He almost did it; well ha, ha the two word prayer “Jesus Help.” Let me tell you what happened. Joy and I got back together; we have been married 42 years. My daughter is a strong believer in the Messiah; married to a godly man and has given us 3 beautiful granddaughters. I got my mind back; I got peace; I walk in the presence of God all the time.
I’m doing the most wonderful thing a human can do; I’m telling everyone everywhere that Jesus is real; He’s bigger than the Jesus that you know about through religion. It’s not a head knowledge; it’s a heart knowledge. It’s not a tradition learned by rote; that’s what I had in Judaism; traditional Judaism. It’s intimacy with God where I hear His voice. He said “My sheep hear my voice” and I heard just a few minutes ago about some of you. I heard that God had healed some of you. I heard that there was someone with a severe pain in their neck. And by the way this happened before today. This happened while you were listening to the broadcast this week. And you got healed and didn’t even know that it was God. Well, I’m telling you it was God it’s not me; look at me as a good Jewish secretary. And I take good dictation from my Heavenly Father. And so you were healed earlier this week. But I tell you there is a presence of God that is going out over the airwaves right now that is so strong that no pain can stand in its presence. Spirit of pain get off that back right now. Get off that hip in Jesus Name; get off those fingers in Jesus Name; get off that shoulder, in Jesus Name. Get off that head spirit of migraine be gone now instantly in Jesus Name. And pour your love; You’re healing virtue just; pour it into Your people right now. And cause them to repent of known sin. That means tell God you’re sorry and ask Him for the power in Jesus Name to overcome that compulsion in your life. In Jesus Name I break every curse up to 4 generations.
I tell you it’s so strong in back and heads right now. If you have tumors in the brain I say they’re gone. I say if you have tumors anywhere in your body. Cancer anywhere in your body it is gone in Jesus Name. Oh God you are so good. There is nothing I would rather be doing than telling people about God and how good He is.
That’s why I’ve written my latest book “The Race to Save the World.” In this book I show the last move of God’s Spirit before Jesus returns. It’s the knitting together of Jewish people and Christians that know the Messiah to form the One New Man. And when this occurs there will be a release of such glory. I have found that there’s actually Biblical laws of evangelism that the church has been blind to. That when the church moves in these Biblical laws of evangelism watch the largest Gentile harvest in history. When the church starts moving in these Biblical laws of healing; what the greatest healing revival in history. You see the biggest problem we have is the form of our religion because it’s based on a super star system that came right from the Emperor of Rome. Passed on to the Catholic Church and then infected the Protestant church. Christianity went from a vibrant religion to a spectator sport. But I tell you each one of us are going to be moving in the power of God. The least Christian will move in the supernatural and this is God’s time; this is your time. Repent of your sins; make Jesus your Lord; walk in holiness, and read your Bible.
Sid: I had a divine appointment a friend of mine who is a pastor contacted our office and said “Sid, I have a Prophet that’s in my church that’s the real thing, I want you to come and hear him speak.” I went to his church and I met Jose Santana and he prophesied a few things over me and it remains to be seen whether they come to pass, and time will tell. However, Jose you did something that I’ve never seen before you took a look… I happened to have a picture of one of my 3 granddaughters. This is the middle one and she’s one of these children that knows what she wants and will not change her mind, she instantly knows. I mean I’ve never seen a little one even when she’s two years old she was like this. And you looked at her picture and you said that exactly. And then you also said that she will be given a gift of music. Now when you said to me what you did and I know that was accurate. Now I’m told that this happens many times when you look at pictures of people you know things about what will happen in the future and about them currently. How do you know this, do you hear it, do you see it; take this case. We were having lunch and I pulled a picture out and you tell me this; explain to me what’s going on inside of the man.
Jose: I’m glad you asked usually what do is I inquire of the Holy Spirit of God and I look at the picture as a place of contact. Just like the Apostle Paul will have handkerchief and would give them to the people and they will get healed. But in this particular application I look at the picture and I look at the face and I look at the eyes and I asked the Holy Spirit to begin to give me the inside, the makeup likes and the dislikes of the person. Right away the Word of the Lord just begins to come out of my belly and that’s how.
Sid: Now did you have the whole thought and then speak it out; or did you just speak it out as sort of like a good secretary word for word; as you hear one word you speak one word?
Jose: I’m glad you asked; usually there’s two ways of process. It comes from the belly to your mouth and out, that’s in the spirit. And the carnal mind goes from the belly to the mind to the lips. So it’s starts by human and I don’t like that I said “Lord just allow the word of God to come from my belly whatever information You’re giving me and be released. I know that it’s not of mind because I don’t know the people that I see through pictures or in meetings.
Sid: I want to learn more about this gift it really intrigues me and it says in the Bible that we should all prophesy.
Sid: So that means that we all should be intrigued by this particular gift. But I said one other thing at lunch that was troubling me. You’re one of the first prophets that I’ve said this to that I believe that doesn’t mean that we’re both right. But you did say what I believe. I have many prophets that say “You have to believe the prophetic word or it to come to pass. And if it didn’t come to pass that’s because you didn’t believe it.” And you said to me “If God says it it’s going to happen.”
Sid: Jose I see that as a cop-out an excuse when things don’t happen.
Jose: I believe that too, I fear the Lord so much that I only speak what He allows me to speak and those things that He’s shown me in the Spirit that is the only thing I share with people. And I always tell people “I’m not that bright like people with masters and all of these degrees but by the Spirit when He revealed and He speaks to me it is so clear.” It’s so profound that I could not help but to share what the Word of the Lord.
Sid: Now I want to see a little bit, I see the man I want to see what God has done with you. There was a point and you were not a believer in the Messiah and it seemed as though everything was going wrong in your life. You had the dishonorable profession of being a drug dealer.
Sid: Using drugs.
Jose: Right, right
Sid: But everything was coming apart; tell me about it.
Jose: Oh my, about 25 years ago I left Puerto Rico and moved to New York City and I was poor with a neighborhood and I met some people that was the time of the hippy era and I starting to do a little marijuana and then some other things escalated to heavy drugs. And then I met other people and we started selling drugs and so forth and I made a mess of my life. I hit bottom and I almost killed myself in a car accident and I went in the wrong direction, and my family was praying for me. And one of them said “Can you come to church with us?” And I said “I tried everything else and it didn’t work.” So I said “Let’s go to church and see what happens.” And a regular guy sitting there in the 2nd service gave me a Word of Knowledge.” I didn’t know what a Word or Knowledge was all about and he said “Jesus Loves you.” And I go “This guy is wrong, all the wicked things that I have done, all the sinful things that I have done in my life; and how could Jesus love me.” So I got out of the chair and I took 2 steps and out of my belly rivers of living waters and the peace of God that passes all understanding hit me. And I said “Lord, who shall I share this experience?” He said “Call your wife.” So I called my wife, she said “Calm down, calm down you’re too excited.” And I go “Honey, I tried drugs, I tried alcohol and I did the things that are wrong and that didn’t get me excited now this thing about Jesus.” So she kept an eye on me and 3 months later she says, “I don’t know what you have but I want what you got.” And she got born again and sanctified by the blood of the Lamb. And 3 years later God began to give me visions in the church.
Sid: Wait a second Jose, they prayed for you you had this wonderful feeling. Did you speak in unknown tongues at that time?
Jose: No, no.
Sid: Okay but you had this, you had all sorts of feelings with drugs and you were a dealer but this was something far better than anything than you’ve ever had.
Jose: The love of God, the joy drew me to His presence. I was a person who didn’t like to read any book. So 3 or 4 months later He gave me the desire to read the Bible. And it would be 8 or 10 hours a day that I would be crying on the floor reading the Bible.
Sid: Now I have a question. Your wife must have thought we Jewish people have a word called mashuga.
Sid: Your wife must have thought that you had gone mashuga, crazy. (Laughing)
Jose: Absolutely but the craziness that she saw in me was good because I became home-bound and respectful to all things my work area, my relationship with my wife; relationship with my pastor. My relationship with all of the people around it changed, it was a process.
Sid: Can you picture what had happened to you if you had not had that encounter with Jesus the way you were headed. You’d probably would be dead now or in prison.
Jose: The Lord showed me a dream that some people were looking to kill me and gave me the name the automobile that they drove. But I did not know nothing about the gift; to me it was just a regular dream and I was going crazy. And I was going “What can I do with this thing?” And that was my turn around I believe to come out of Egypt into the things of God. But everything that I know about the Lord it is a process; it is not overnight. As you yield to God and begin to fellowship with Him and read His word and obey His word, then your inside begins to change.
Sid: Now how many years ago did this happen?
Jose: Over 25 years ago.
Sid: I have a question, you’re still very tender over this. I see tears welling up in your eyes, this happened so long ago; why are you still tender over this Jose.
Jose: The Bible declared “To whom much has been forgiven much love.” And I know that I was destitute to go to hell because of my lifestyle. I am so grateful every day that He saved my soul. Not the gift, the gift is something that He gives to whoever He wants to that’s what the Bible says. But just the relationship that He has with me.
Sid: You know Jose a number of years ago I had a dream from God. My kind of dream is one that is literal and in this dream God told me to do something and He knows me. I did it the moment He told me.
Sid: And He told me to do a book it made no sense.
Sid: But He knows better.
Sid: And so I wrote a book and they called it “They Thought For Themselves