Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be healed to be whole. And I don’t know a better person to be talking about that than my guest the Director of Whole Life Ministries in Augusta, Georgia Sandra Kennedy. And on yesterday’s broadcast Sandra we were talking about the book that we’re making available this week “Preparation for a move of God” which God told you to write. Tell me about the move of God that’s coming on planet earth.
Sandra: I believe Sid that we are absolutely sitting on just the very edge of a tremendous outpouring of the presence of God and I believe that people need to get ready for it. I believe that you need to check yourself out so to speak. You know I asked the question if Jesus is the Son of God and if He is how does it affect your life? In other words if Jesus really is the Son of God and you have accepted Him as your Lord and Savior has it affected your life in such an extent that anybody watching or seeing you can see that God has done a tremendous thing in your life and they want what you have? Now that is the key. I believe that if we were to begin to look at ourselves and make sure that we are not playing church but that we are being the church.
Sid: What I find is that most people that go to church act one way and then when they get around their friends that are not Christians they just blend in.
Sandra: Right, right and they…and my question is did they have a real encounter with God? I mean that would be my question. Sid I’ll throw this out real fast; I was a graduate of Southwest Baptist Theological Seminary I taught in their churches, I was Youth Director and taught on the state level for them working in youth and working for them and I was not saved.
Sandra: Now I thought I was meaning I thought I was. But I had an encounter with God that transformed my life and God later spoke to me and told me that my salvation actually took place after I had led many people to the Lord. People say “How could you have done that?” Because the word of the Lord does not return to Him void.
Sid: Did you as a young child walk down the altar and say a prayer?
Sandra: Yes I did but my life was not changed and that’s the key my life was not changed. I was battling areas in my life I was up and down like a yoyo and I didn’t like me I didn’t like Christians. I didn’t like what I saw in their life they were to me just a bunch of hypocrites and don’t misunderstand me I was a hypocrite myself. And I was miserable in my walk with God. But when I had a real encounter with Him I mean an encounter that transformed my life and I was willing to move me out of the way and let Him have me and give myself over to Him and let Him be Lord of my life a peace came to that I’ve never known before in my life. A joy came to me that no one could ever take from me. I quit this yoyo type living and I began to be steady in my walk with Him. It didn’t mean I didn’t have problems and didn’t have some up and downs but on a whole my life was changed and transformed and I became hungry for the things of God. I wanted to know Him and I’m excited about what He was doing. I think being a Christian is one of the most exciting things on the face of this earth.
Sid: So what should someone do when they walked down the aisle when they were 11 years old in a Baptist church and they believe intellectually but they’ve never experientially met the Lord? They like for instance I understand that your sanctuary which I haven’t been to yet but I will shortly when people walk in and there is not even a service going on there’s a tangible presence of God’s Spirit. They’ve never experienced anything like this what should they do?
Sandra: I think first of all that people need to stop and take inventory of their life. I think that they need to look and see we know if we are playing church. We know if we are acting religious acting the role we carry our Bibles without reading our Bibles. We do not have… God is not real to us He seems to be far away. I think the first thing to do is to get honest and admit those kinds of things. And then begin to cry out for an experience with God and willing for Him to come in and transform our life. The Bible says “Those that diligently seek Him find Him.” See the whole crux of the matter is coming back to this word of God. God’s word is truth and do we believe it or do we not believe it. He said “If you seek Him you’ll find Him.” He said “If you come to Him He will not reject you or cast you away.” Now you have to come to Him in faith for we come asking God into our life God is faithful but then we have to walk away from the things in our pass. We have to do an about face, we have to do an about face and turn away from that which had a hold of us. And when I teach people… when I was talking in the first part of the week Sid I talked about that when God visited me and He talked about growing up the Body of Christ teaching them victory. I teach a very very victorious message. I mean it’s very victorious message I teach you how to overcome, how to conquer, how to rule how to reign. How to head not the tail and my intent is to make God so real to you that He becomes such a vital part of your life that I mean you’re just consumed by Him you just fall in love with Him.
Sid: Sandra there’s someone listening to us right now and they’ve gotten a death sentence from the doctor they have an incurable illness encourage them right now.
Sandra: Well if they have faith to believe God to save them you get healed exactly like you get saved. You got saved because you believed the Bible somebody told you about Jesus and you believed it you believed that He did. That You asked Him save you that He that He would do it. And listen you believed that before you ever are saved and you confess it before you’re saved. You confess with your mouth “Thank You Lord for saving me.” You aren’t saved until you do it healing is the same way you find in the Bible confess His word and healed me.” By the stripes of Jesus you were healed pass tense were healed not trying to get healed were healed. And you move into the mode “I thank You for healing me, I praise You for healing me, I thank You for healing me. You are greater than cancer I come against cancer, I come against it in the name of Jesus” and you begin to confess over your life what God’s word says about your life. God says you’re healed, God said you’re saved, God said that He sent His word to heal you, God said He already done this for you. And you begin to say “Oh I understand the report I know the report but there’s a greater report I will receive the report of the Lord.” And you just let God be big and you say God you said in your book that “By Your stripes, by the stripes of Jesus I am healed.” You quit talking the negative and you think about you dwell on the word of God and believe what God has said. The Bible said that God’s word is medicine so every single day you take a dose of medicine.
Sid: Do you?
Sandra: Yes every day of my life.
Sid: With as much as you know and as many years as you’ve been in the word on healing you still have to do it every day?
Sandra: I listen to a tape on healing every day of my life.
Sid: What would happen if you did not?
Sandra: Well there are times when I haven’t I mean…
Sid: I mean why are you doing this why are you doing it every day?
Sandra: To build my faith. Well there’s some days I can’t do it because my schedules but on a whole my intent is to listen to one every day.
Sid: You know what I love about you Sandra is that you are being really honest. A lot of people that teach faith and teach healing they just tell the good things they don’t tell the bad things but you’re really being transparent.
Sandra: Well it’s because I…you know Jesus is so wonderful I don’t mind being transparent I mean He works anyway.
Sid: You know I’m reminded when all you knew was one scripture the Lord revealed. Your mother was dying from cancer and the Lord said the portion of the Lord’s prayer is all you need. Would you…I believe if you will pray this over people right now that that’s so real to you you saw your mother healed of cancer from that one line of scripture. I believe that many people with neck aches right now have been healed. But as you begin to say that scripture Sandra I believe that many people will be healed.
Sandra: The Bible says in the Lord’s prayer “Our Father which art in heaven hallow it be Thy name, Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth (we’re on earth) will be done on earth as it is in heaven.” And then He said to me “There is not sickness in heaven.” If people would but believe the word of God believing is the key believing God’s bigger than the problem, believe God’s bigger than the medical report. And begin to confess what God says about you fall in love with Him. Go get your concordance and look at the scriptures about healing and look out and dwell on them. Go to Proverbs 24:22 begin to look up those scriptures and mediate on the word of God and believe what the Bible says. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. If He did it one time, if He did it for my mother he’ll do it for you. God is in the healing business He is still in the healing business and He bore on Himself and He took the price for our healing. Himself the Bible says in Matthew took our infirmities and bare our sicknesses. He sent His word to healed them to preserve their life. All I want you to do is to begin to have hope and you come from home and something can be done about this. I mean God is bigger than this I don’t have to accept this God is bigger and this will begin to accept the word and watch the word begin to work in your life and begin to fall in love with that word. And speak the word of God and make God big and powerful and mighty in your life He’s so wonderful, He really is!
Sid: I believe that if you’ll pray right now very quickly people will be healed.
Sandra: Father in the name of Jesus we come against that which has come against my brother and sisters in Christ. We curse to the root cancer, we come against sickness and father in the name of Jesus Father I ask Father that they will reach and grab hold of the word of God and believe for healing today. We call them healed be healed in the name of Jesus we release healing in your body in Jesus name.
Sid: And now do something that you could not do before if that’s possible by faith and action because if you’ve been healed then act like you’ve been healed in Jesus name.
Sid: Do you see what’s going on in the world Mishpochah you read end time Bible prophesies you hear about so many Jewish people now turning to Jesus you see what’s going on in the nation of Israel. I mean we are in as the Orthodox Jewish Rabbis say the footsteps of the Messiah. They’re right they just don’t know that His name is Jesus. And to who much is given much is required. There is a tremendous tremendous call of God on your life but will you achieve your destiny. Is there a ceiling over you that you’ve been in a rut for so long you don’t know how to stop it you know that you want to stop it but you know that you just don’t know what to do to stop it. And I’ve asked my friend Dave Roberson who’s pastor of the Prayer Center Family in Tulsa, Oklahoma to teach a bit about his series his 4 cassette series it’s called “Removing the Ceiling” subtitled “The Cost of Exultation.” Dave on yesterday’s broadcast we found out that you were really sabotaged as a child your mother was an alcoholic, your father ended up in prison, she had many men living with her and you were looking for a father image and the best you had was a grandfather who actually helped you out a lot but by the same token said “You’ll never amount to anything” and was cursing you. Had you just found the Lord and just been Spirit filled and went to a church every Sunday the rest of your life and went to Sunday school and lived like the world the rest of your life you wouldn’t even come close to fulfilling your destiny. But that’s what most Christian’s think Christianity is go to church on Sunday and be a good person and have your life insurance policy.
Dave: Well Sid when God brought me out what we were talking about yesterday He brought me out through edification and praying in tongues. And this is such an incredible gift such an incredible gift because God has sent this supernatural language all the way from heaven and He literally transfers it to our spirit. 1st Corinthian’s 14:14 says “If I pray in an unknown tongue my spirit prayeth which is my human spirit. And for it to be my human spirit the Holy Spirit literally transfers that language to our spirit so that in reality it’s us who’s doing the praying. Because He is the head and we’re the church and where His church is that’s where He has authority.” And so He is literally borrowing my authority and then God the Holy Spirit is formulating this perfect prayer on my behalf and He’s asking me to cooperate by yielding over and letting Him speak the thoughts of God His plan for my life, the mysteries of the understandings of Christ. And this is what began to build my up out of that. I was so intimidated, I was intimidated by father figures that He traded all of those weaknesses for His strength. And each time that He would build me up above one of those strongholds in my life I can remember how it happened. I would pray in tongues and medicate His word and He would build me up above it. And as soon as He built me up above it I was stronger than it was. Then I would get to get a look at it through God’s eyes and I would see how pathetic it was, how destroyed my life was, how hurt I was. And I would see it through God’s eyes and sometimes seeing it through His eyes would make me weep and I entered into crying and I’d cry and I’d want to be free. And I’d found out that that was a kind of intercession. And God said “Good” He said to me one day He said “Good” He moved on my spirit and showed me. He says “When that had a hold of you and you didn’t care or you didn’t know how to be free what did I have to work with? But when I was able through praying in tongues able to edify you and build you above it then then you saw it through My eyes and you hated it as much as I did and that’s where I got the faith from you to set you free. So just before we went off yesterday on the program we was talking about a church that was not far from you and that they actually don’t permit speaking in tongues in the main assembly.
Sid: Because they don’t want anything divisive and you know what they are winning people to the Lord, they’re bursting at the seams they’re doing something right.
Dave: Yes, well at that I was talking about my associate Tim Stemple and he managed Rex Humbard and Rex Humbard was the largest ministry in the world. And about 12 years ago he came aboard with me and God was just really teaching me then that praying in tongues he pulls down the strong holds and begins to really set yourself free. So we and Tim literally died of the worst things in our life together. He began to pray in tongues and fast and we did these things together. And Tim has the most incredible government gift and myself my soul is so trained I could yield in any area. Just by nature you know people say I’ve got a wit that I’m funny you know I just get real funny and get on a role I can use that, I can use humor to teach with. I can teach on anything it doesn’t make any difference to me I can transform to anything the crowd wants me to be I mean I can win souls with it even. It’s almost like a president who will die or he will buy an agency of some kind that will find out what the public wants and then they can make him into that public relations. Well I can find out the temperature of a crowd, I can find out what they want they want. And believe me Sid I know how to give them what they want. And Tim is the best government guest probably in the world and he can organize into existence anything you want to organize. Having a large church like that is not difficult you have to find out how much of God do the people want and we’re not going to go any further out of the flesh and you just stop on that line.
Sid: For instance you must end by noon or you’ll have a church spit
Dave: Yes Sir a user friendly.
Sid: Or half of them will walk out (Laughing.)
Dave: You’ve got to find out these things so I at one point in the walk that I was walking for revival here in Tulsa. At one point I thought “It seems like everything you teach is slowing me down at this point I can do all of these things and get a crowd why don’t you let Me do this?” And He said “Because He said You would get hungry again because you can’t stay away from prayer and when you would get hungry you would start walking in the principals I taught you again then you’d start teaching the crowd and you would go right back where you are now and it wouldn’t be Me building your ministry it would be you building it.” And He said He gave me a promise He said “You walk with me and I build your ministry, He said not you building it I’ll build it and He said there will be no stopping place that it absolutely will be no stopping place in what I can do to someone who will give themselves completely to Me.” And Sid we’re after Tulsa, we have people here every night praying in tongues and speaking the word of God over the city every night. He showed me that if He lets…if I if I let Him loose in my life and let Him do what He can do as God the anointing after anointing that He’s going to bring us to and has brought us to that He will do more in 5 years and these years to come than He has done in my entire life in just a 5 year period. So yes I know how to do all of those things but I also know about taking a city and I know about revival and I know what brings it. And I often refer to things this way I can raise money Sid I’ve been flowing into meetings specifically for raising money because I developed I trained my soul so good I could do it with or without God. And people flew me in to do those things, I know how to do all of those things. When I started praying in tongues everything that was not of God He started killing in me. And everything that was of Him that’s what He left and began to build. And right now Sid I can tell you (Laughing) with where I’ve come from in my life peace is becoming the stronger and stronger reward. And the love that He’s giving me for people I’m ready to breakdown and cry right here I did not know that it could be this way. And I can promise all of you that are listening that you get these tapes and you begin to walk this walk. You begin to take those times of praying in tongues and letting Him edify you and begin that change in you. I can promise you if you stay faithful for just about 1 hour a day I can promise you that a process of change from edification will begin in your life that will ending up changing those strongholds, destroying those ceilings that’s over your life making one year like the next until death came to pass until a generation is gone, till all is ended your life is gone and you hardly known what you’ve had done to do. But I can guarantee you it will all start 30 minutes to just an hour a day just letting Him edify you and begin to build you up on your most holy God kind of faith.
Sid: And what does the average household watch of television per day? All you have to do is take l of those 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 hours whatever it is and pray in unknown tongues.
Sid: And what a difference. Do you realize what would happen in America if just the people listening to us right now were to do that?
Dave: Oh my.
Sid: One hour a day.
Dave: Oh my.
Sid: But you have an anointing when you teach on this subject and what I find is that the more I listen to you the more I desire to pray in unknown tongues.
Dave: (Laughing) I’m so glad. Although I can say this and I think I said this before but I can’t just help it. The day you decide to pray l hour in tongues is the day that you walk into the class room of the Holy Spirit. That fine dressed gentleman at the chalkboard is non-other than the Holy Spirit Himself. And because of that medium of tongues between Him and you what He knows He’s about to teach you.
Sid: Mishpochah you want to have hours of teaching by Dave…
Sid: We want everywhere to have such a passion for Jesus but the truth of the matter is because of the flesh, because of the devil, because what’s being pounded through communication airways most believers are in various degrees of a rut. And enough is enough there’s a job for you to do there’s a destiny on your life. There’s a purpose for your life and I’ve asked my friend Dave Roberson who’s the pastor of Prayer Center Family Tulsa, Oklahoma. And he has a teaching that is called “Removing the Ceiling” and I believe that this is an answer to prayer because most of you know about the rut you’re in I want us to teach you about that to know about the ceilings in your life but you don’t really know about how to bust through. And I don’t know anyone better than Dave to teach you on this. Dave I was fascinated because at all of the times we’ve known each other and I’ve interviewed you I never knew much about your family background and your mother and father and grandfather. Tell me a bit about that.
Dave: Sid my mother was a periodic alcoholic and she would drink an awful lot. And during those years when oh growing up that I first begin to remember I remember that in the spells when she’d be drunk from say months at a time that sometimes she would bring different men home with her. And I remember many fathers along the way.
Sid: Is it true I know it is but is it true that most of us evaluate God the Father by our earthly father?
Dave: I’m absolutely sure that’s true Sid because the marks those things put on me I really wasn’t able to unseal them until I found out the difference between real worship and the mortification that went. The will worship even after I was born again “I wish I was different.” And when I finally found out how to remove the feeling it was through mortification. In other words I found out how to turn to the Holy Ghost loose on the inside and He’s the one that destroyed the hold that the intimidation and the grief and the hopelessness that I feel at times. Because that not only that father image that I didn’t have but when we moved in with grandpa he took us in and thank God for it but grandpa he didn’t like my father because of what he did to my mother. And so when I would do something that would remind him on my father sometimes he would get so mad that he would scream at me and sometimes he’d kick me so hard that not to hurt you or anything but just to get moving. That he could tell me to get me the hammer off of the table he’d be on a ladder and I would panic and get so afraid I couldn’t see the hammer even if it was the only tool on the table. He’d yell at me until finally he’d just storm down off the ladder to get a move on kind of kick me and say “What’s the matter with you? You’re just like old man Roberson you’re no good and you never will be.” And when I go back now I cry a little bit tears of joy I can assure you now and before I get too far in getting the ceiling off in the last years of my mother’s life. One day I was over on the coast I was in Oregon and I was in Oregon Coast within 200 miles of where I live with a friend evangelist Dudley. Early in the morning God spoke to me “Get back home.” And I ran home drove all the way home that night just in time for my mother to come knocking on the door. She wanted to know everything that I was doing and she was so moved that I was beginning to teach the gospel and that was the last time that I saw her. So I believe that God through our prayers moved on her and saved her in her last days.
Sid: But what was it like when you were told “You’re no good you’re just like your father.” Did you believe that or you just kind of shrugged it off?
Dave: You know what? That even though I didn’t want to believe it it became part of me. See I became so intimidated afraid I guess especially with authority figures.
Sid: Well you had so many different men living with your mother.
Dave: Yes. I’ve spent some of my time with them when they’d come in and drank a lot and I’d beg them to take me fishing you know to do something you know like a father would do. But I didn’t have much luck (Laughing) in that area. But no it and when we moved in with grandpa about the 4th or 5th grade then then when I would do things like that then he’d yell at me “You’re no good, you’re just like old man Roberson.” And by the way he was a PK.
Dave: A preacher’s kid and my grandfather Roberson as I understand a tent evangelist somewhere around Texas. And so he was running PK, preacher’s kid. And so he’d tell me your just like him your no good you’ll never amount to anything. And it carried over with me and Sid the first years I was born again it was in ultra-holiness. And I thank God for the holiness that’s taught from the inner man that takes the outer man over and causes the person to live in such a holiness that the kind that you do look appealing or modestly. But mostly you tend to do …and kindness in the love walk He has for all of us. Now I believe in modes apparel but I believe in that holiness of that inner-man.
Sid: But what affect did the externally holiness have on you?
Dave: Well this is what I thought to myself. Well here I was raised with one fatherhood and a bunch of fathers who didn’t want me and now I’m afraid not to go to church I’m afraid to dress wrong. I’m afraid of everything that if I anger this father that he’s going to do something to me put me in a car wreck or bring a disease or do something. I was literally afraid of Him. So I get born again and thinking well I lost my one father like that and now I get saved and I get another one. But I can still remember I can still remember when I started to pray in tongues and somehow that praying in tongues which He’s very clear about would edify us and build us up on our most holy faith in God above essential walk and through a walk of faith and power with our Father. Little did I know that building me up above a sense dominated real that that would be part of what He would build me up over in my edification. If I can remember praying Sid in my whole life is beginning to change and literally praying those mysteries the mysteries of Christ that is you and to you and through you the hope of glory up before the Father. And Him answering those mysteries and having the mystery of Christ in you to begin to come alive it’s trading my mind for His. In other words I began to take on His mind and began to displace everything that they told me that I was and replace it with a renewed mind in everything that He said that I was. And I could remember that beginning to take place when I went out and begin a revival when I first moved to Tulsa and was preaching with men who I would have paid a $100 just to hold their sweaty old coat in the back room and listen to him talk about God. And now I was sharing the platform with them. And even at that point with my intimidation I could have preached and raised the dead in that service. And Sid I would go into the backroom where those men were and I would fish. You know I would fish for a compliment because to me they were a father figure. And all I would have to do is to get them to say one thing good message “Brother Roberson that was really some miracles out there.” And if I could get them to say one thing like that then I would be okay the intimidation would leave because I knew that I’d done okay. But now Sid now since I’ve found a level of love and that peace and every time I make another level of peace I keep thinking that this is as good as it can get.
Sid: The fact that you were born again, the fact that you were born again, the fact that you were Spirit filled did not get rid of those bondages, those chains.
Sid: And you’re saying that praying in tongues got rid of that?
Dave: Yes it edified and built me up above it by revealing Christ in me. Now if the freedom was automatically there by merit of the baptism of the Holy Spirit alone then every Christian would be free because He’s no respecter of person. Sid so there must be something that we can do that will activate that process of mortification begin to cause the word that we know to come alive in us and bring us from what we were into what He said that we are. And I found that to be the edification that supernatural language of praying in tongues.
Sid: But I have to ask you this I know of a real seeker sensitive church that’s bursting at the seams near where I live.
Sid: And one of the things that they’ve done is the pastors even Spirit Filled but they’ve agreed that we’re not going to have tongues in our church it’s too controversial. What would you say to that pastor?
Dave: Having a very large church and very successful church isn’t very hard Sid. And to me all you have to do is find the level of flesh that people do not want to go beyond and begin to compromise right at that level. Now I know what I’m talking about Tim my associate he managed Rex Humbard and Rex Humbard was at the top. I don’t mean I should say before Rex Humbard retired and is doing what he’s doing now when he was the biggest ministry in the world it was my associate that managed it.
Dave: And when he came aboard with me we started praying and fasting together and we died together, and we died to the world together to the misuse of money together. Not that we was doing it we were just doing what everybody else said almost. But we died to things together. He’s one of the best government gifts in the world and I can be anything I want to be I found out how to do that.
Sid: Boy with all of the handicaps and all of the strikes against you Mishpochah did you hear what Dave Roberson said I want you to be able to say that you have a ceiling over where you are. God wants you to get those rewards at academy rewards night in heaven.
Sid: My guest by way of telephone Joan and Bob Nast. On yesterday’s broadcast we found out that Joan was traveling with the Benny Hinn ministry and some witches showed up and put some curses. And this this is weird when she had the mammogram test a limp just swelled up in her breast all of a sudden after a meeting. And when they took the mammogram in the darkness there actually on the mammogram on the lump it was an exact shape of a witch. Now at one of Benny Hinn meetings Lester Sumrall was there and Benny said “Let’s take up an offering not for our ministry but to help the hungry.” And so Joan and Bob immediately stood up didn’t have the money but they pledge…they had the money but really should not have done it but God told them so they did. They gave $1000 and Lester said “Believe Psalm 41.” Joan what is Psalm 41 say?
Joan: Psalm 41 it says “Blessed are those that are feeding the hungry and take care of the poor God will sustain them in their time of sickness, they will turn their bed of languish around they shall live and shall not die and all nations will call them blessed.”
Sid: So you were ready for surgery on this malignant tumor but before the surgeon who’s Jewish and not a believer in Jesus is allowed to operate on you you say to her “You can’t operate on me unless you read this scripture.” And the surgeon had already remarked and your doctor had said “Boy you don’t seem to have any fear.” So what did the surgeon do?
Joan: Well she promised me that she would read the scripture and Isaiah 53.
Bob: It was like 1 – 15. There was a lot of them it was all of Isaiah 53.
Joan: Or 1 – 12 I forget how many now but any way she promised she would read it and she did. And come to find out in fact this wonderful surgeon her people in her office were Christians they had been Jewish and they had been born again. And they had been praying for her for 10 years. And every time they would mention the Bible she would just refuse to talk to them. After she operated on me with …after I’ll tell you but she called them up and she said “I know I’ve never listened to you before but this woman has made a believer out of me and I am now reading the Bible.” And it was so incredible because of the fate that she had seen. And I believe God opened her spiritual eyes when she read Isaiah 53. But after she operated that took out the tumor. And the following week I went back and they took out the stitches. And at that time her 2 assistants were there and she had to go out of town. And they after I got dressed they kind of closed in on me and I said “What’s the matter why are you doing that?” And they said I said “Well I had cancer you took them out you took them out and now it’s over right?” They said “Well we didn’t get it all we didn’t get a clear margin we believe that the cancer is in your bones, your liver your lungs and your lymph nodes we have to do a mastectomy. I said “Excuse me? Do you know who I am?” And they said “Yeah.” I said “I’m a child of God I have a healing ministry I pray for people I tithe my money, this can’t be true.” And they said “Well, regardless you have cancer and we believe it’s spread all over your body.” And we want to do a mastectomy. And I said “When? They said “Next week.” I said “I’m very sorry I can’t do it next week my husband and I are going with the Benny Hinn to California to going to pray over people that don’t know that Jesus Christ heals today so we’re going to pray over real sick people.” So they already knew I was nuts so they said “Okay” you know and I said “Make it for the following week if that’s what you have to do that’s what we’ll do.” We got on a plane we went out to California we told everybody there and the workers went back and they told Benny Hinn that I had cancer very bad.” And so they called me back in the back room of the arena and Bobby and I went back there.” And Benny got off the couch and started walking towards me and he said “Oh Joanie, Joanie, Joanie” And at that he was about 5’ away from me and all of a sudden the power of God came through that building and slammed my body right to the floor nobody touched me. And when they picked me up I said “Benny God has healed me He’s touched me and I’m scheduled for a mastectomy next Monday a week away what am I going to do?” He said “Joan I’m only a man that brings everybody together to worship the Lord, God will speak to you to give you peace on what to do.” We came home from California; a number of things took place in the next couple of days that which we won’t have time to go into. Anyway on Thursday morning prior to the operation I had total peace, total peace, I had absolutely no fear. The surgeon called me up and said “Come down to my office.” We went down to her office, she said “Joan I’m a cancer specialist I am a breast specialist that’s all I do, I know my work.” She says I went inside your breast and I took out a tumor very very very large and the size of that tumor we didn’t get a clear margin. Everything that pointed to I really believed that was in your bones your livers, your lungs. We just got the reports back early this morning it is not in your bones, your liver your lungs and we do not have to do a mastectomy but we do want to re-operate to get…I’ve got to get in there and get a fair margin for my own satisfaction and take out your lymph nodes. I said “You do whatever you want to do because I’m a child of God and I’m not going any place because God has a plan for me, He has a purpose for me just like every single person on this earth God has a purpose for their life if they’ll just get rid of fear, keep their eyes on Jesus God will get them through whatever attack He’ll get them through.” Long story short I went in on Monday singing as they were taking me into the operating room singing Jesus loves me. In the operating room I was…scriptures were pouring out of my mouth finally got them all laughing those cancer operations. They said “Shut up and put her out she’s driving us nuts.” A little nurse in the corner is saying “Preach it sister preach it.” Well after 5½ hours of going inside my breast she told my husband she couldn’t find a drop of cancer in there they didn’t know what happened to that margin that wasn’t clear. They took out 15 lympth nodes under my arm and they said there was cancer in one and she said to me but that’s like a general factor. I said “No, no Doc you know what that was there for?” I said “You were right it was in my bones, my liver, my lymph nodes but I said “But my God, my Jesus, my Father in heaven He touched me and healed me and He took it but He left it in one lymph node that you could truly see you’re a good doctor you know what you’re doing. I said He just wanted you to know He’s real looking for your good work to do.
Sid: Joan you said that everyone, you started out almost prophesying you said everyone has a purpose. What is your purpose Joan and Bob Nast?
Joan: Our purpose is to bring joy and happiness to the brokenhearted people, and children with cancer, and dreadful disease AIDS. But more than that if we expect miracles God gave us a vision that we saw wheelchairs and stretchers and 100’s of people coming on to this property and God miraculously touching and healing and saving.
Sid: But as children…
Sid: Tell me about the one particular little boy that had cancer in his bone marrow and had 1% chance of survival very quickly.
Bob: This little boy Christopher he came as because he was invited by another family who their daughter has bone marrow cancer and asked if it was okay if he came. And we said of course we’re open for all the sick children. So these people came and they were a little skeptic at first but they could feel the love that was here. And they looked around and they said “Do you do this a lot?” And we say “Yeah.” And you know we made them feel comfortable and we were talking to Christopher and talking to the parents and Joanie was talking to the parents and I found out that they were Catholic and they lived in Tampa. And they told us about the oncology report that he only had 1% chance of survival. Well 2 days before that God had spoken to me and my wife and my daughter at different times and said “Now is the time I’m releasing you to pray over the children.” Because we never had prayed over the children before, I won’t say that we never have but we never made it available to everybody. So God released us to pray for him we were so excited because we were waiting for that. So we said to little Christopher said to the parents we said “Would you mind if we prayed over your son?” And they said “No, not at all.” So we got our people around him and we prayed over him and all of a sudden as we prayed over him he started shaking going to convulsions and the parents looked like shocked and said “What’s going on?” And my wife says Joan says “God is touching him, I believe that God is touching your son and we want to know because we call it a praise report when you hear a good report back.” Well what happened they left and 3 weeks later or 2 weeks later we got a thing on our computer a praise report praise report. Well they said “Do you remember little Christopher we were there such and such a time and they began to tell us that they took him to Sloan Kettering Cancer Institute it was the last resort that they knew to go. They took them they’re and said “What can we do about our son?” And they said “Before we can do anything we have to do tests.” Well they took every test imaginable at Sloan Kettering Hospital and they could not find one bit of cancer in that little boy.
Sid: Well praise God and that’s not the only story but we’re out of time but we’re making the book available for you it’s a booklet “Who Cares For Orphans, Widows, the Oppressed God Does Do We?” It’s a book that’s going to change your life by Dr. Derrick Prince.
Sid: Everyone knows that God doesn’t wink at sin. But most people feel that there’s a certain length of time that they can get with it. And maybe your day of reckoning will come 10 years from today, 20 years from today. But I have a guest that has documented that the exact date the United States as a nation does what God constitutes, and just look at the 10 commandments for starters, what God constitutes as sin the exact day a warning judgment comes and it’s so many times that if more Christians understood that God is a holy God who is looking at everything that we do with a since of love to stop us from getting into areas that will require judgment we wouldn’t dare do the things do. I’m talking about believer’s image what happens to non-believers. I have on the telephone John McTernan, now John wrote a book called “God’s final warning to America.” On October 11, 1987 John McTernan that spent 26 years as a Federal Agent he was with the Internal Security Division of IRS. Something very unusual happened to you on that day John tell me about it.
John: Well Sid I was watching TV and it was the news and it had a story on about a rather large, in fact up until the time the largest homosexual gathering I think possibly in history, took place in Washington DC. And the homosexuals were gathering for their rights and to promote their agenda and I watched it I didn’t know that it was taking place I just picked it up when it was on the news and I turned the news the TV off because it troubled my spirit to watch it so I walked away. At that point Sid I didn’t think of praying, interceding, I didn’t think God would be offended by that. Of course I wasn’t personally happy by it but I forgot about it. And then that week that very week the stock market melted down to, at that time to record levels with the following Monday the big crash in 1987 do you remember that Sid?
Sid: Yes I do I used to be a stock broker with Merrill Lynch so I do keep an eye on the market.
John: Okay well then this is oh about 8 days later and I’m watching the news again and there’s a newscaster on it and he was obviously shaken by this stock market crash his lip was actually quivering. As I was watching him I had this like this flash back it was like a vision Sid and I could see the week before and I could see the TV. I was looking at the TV but I was actually seeing the week before. I saw the homosexual gathering and the news commentator and all of a sudden I heard in my inner man the voice of the Lord saying that this stock market crash was in response to this homosexual march and that I didn’t fear the Lord otherwise I would have interceded. Otherwise the country is naked and open before me in judgment because the fear of Me has been lost. It was as if it was like overwhelming I actually fell prostrate on the ground before the TV and I repented. And if you had asked me on the day before if I feared God I would have said “Oh yes I do I fear God” but I really didn’t Sid and at this point God opened my eyes that we had fallen under His judgment as a nation. And from that day to this I have been documented one instance after another where as you mentioned in the introduction there will be a Supreme Court decision regarding abortion let’s say, and at that very day a hurricane will smash into the country.
Sid: You know that was the thing that was so overwhelming to me in your book John. It’s not like in the same year, it’s not like in the same 6 months, it’s not like in the same month it’s the same day!
John: Yes Sid.
Sid: I don’t think people realize this correlation.
John: And it’s bit 1 Sid it’s like every major…every hurricane since 1989 has fallen on one of those days everyone. All the major earthquakes 6.0 or greater have fallen on those days. Massive tornadoes that sweep up whole small towns are falling on those days. The stock market has gone at one point to all time heights since 1987. And in my book I fully document where each major will say dip in the stock market were to fall 100 points in l day and things like that they’re all around or should say the very day abortion event a national homosexual event or touching the apple of God’s eye which is Israel.
Sid: I want to take you back to October 11th 1987 was this just like an inner sense what you’re describing to me? Did the presence of God come on you? Did He speak to you audibly? Explain I know that you told me what you saw but what did you feel? What did you experience?
John: Sid it was not an external voice it was an internal voice but it was so powerful that I was like overwhelmed by it it was….the voice specifically spoke at me about not fearing “You don’t fear Me” that’s exactly what I heard. “If you feared Me you would have interceded when you saw that march.” And I was sort of like shamed I remember that I was ashamed before the Lord but it was Sid it was like me and God alone it was like time stopped where I was at the time and I was just being…I don’t want to use the word lectured I was being spoken to by the Lord.
Sid: But you know John the Bible says that there’s a judgment day for everyone of us wouldn’t you rather have had your warning on that date so that you could change than when you die and go to judgment day?
John: Absolutely Sid. I mean you I could sense what it was to be in the presence of the Lord and not quite right with Him. And that was what it was Sid and I repented. I mean He didn’t tell me to repent I just realized that I was wrong in my understanding of the Lord and right then and there I fell on the ground and I cried out to Him and said “Lord” it was like pride was exposed to me also. Because it was if you had asked me like the day before if I said the day before if you had come to me and say to me “Do you fear the Lord?” I would have said “Oh yes I fear the Lord definitely.” But when God showed me what the true fear of the Lord was I immediately repented.
Sid: Help me “What is the true fear of the Lord?”
John: Sid it’s real simple the true fear of the Lord is to as we see in the book of Job “To shoo evil to hate evil, to flee evil, to flee sin.” And you mentioned it in the introduction that thinking that you can sin and get away with it and all of that.
Sid: It impossible to watch secular television without witnessing illicit sex, drugs, homosexuality, nudity, pornography, I mean you can’t even watch that. Even if you choose what you’re watching they’ll slip a commercial in.
John: Your right Sid and I watch very very very very little TV I like to watch college football and you watch football and the advertisement will be for some show on and advertisement is exactly as you say. We’ve become …sin is promoted on it now and it’s encouraged and it’s promoted and there’s no fear of God anymore it’s gone.
Sid: What is God trying to tell us by you correlating all of these events of sin and then a judgment coming the same say what is God telling us?
John: God’s telling us a couple of things that’s a very good question. Number 1 the object of the book and what I believe that God’s showing me and showing the nation He’s holy and that God’s holy and that He’s not winking at sin. And #2 we’re to truly fear him over sin when we see homosexuals like gay pride day the church should fear the Lord over that and intercede before Him for our nation and that His word is real Sid. God’s word is authority it’s real. When He says in His word that He’s going to judge and destroy nations over the very sin that America’s doing. And as you said already precisely on these days and we see the hurricanes hitting and these stock market crashes and all of these combined it’s a warning that we’re on a collision course with God. And what He says in His word He’s going to do.
Sid: John give me one specific sin and what the judgment was pick one out of the large numbers of events that you have in your book.
John: Okay the centerpiece of the book is June 28, 1992 that was Gay Pride Day. And on June 28 and Gay Pride Day let me just explain to your listeners is the last Sunday in June and it’s been going on since about 1970. It started the late ‘60s early 70’s and its most of the major cities in the nation celebrate it New York celebrates Gay Pride Day, Boston, Chicago, Los Angles, San Francisco and Atlanta and there are other cities too. And the homosexual march and their supporters come out and very rude things happen. I have seen oh boy horrible things Sid oh boy I’ve seen a Gay Pride Day in San Francisco where it was the real thing and it wasn’t edited for the news of TV and it was so vulgar I wouldn’t dare repeat on the telephone what I saw with my eyes taking place. So any way on this day June 28, 1992 it was Gay Pride Day 2 massive earthquakes in southern California. One was 7.6 on the rector scale and the other was 6.5 on the rector scale. And the big one was called Landers Quake and in fact when you read the newspapers count the accounts of the earthquake in the Los Angeles Times the front page is “Gay Pride Day and the Earthquake and that’s all that’s on the first page.
Sid: We’re out of time.
SID: Just before John was arrested, he asked God for two things. What were those two things?
JOHN: I asked him, I knew I was going to jail and I let my children down once again. I said, “God, I want my children to forgive me and to love me one more time. And Father, I want to teach again” because I was a licensed teacher and I knew it would be taken away. I loved teaching so much. I wanted to teach again. And that’s the only [thing] that I asked. I didn’t ask him not to go to jail. I didn’t ask him anything else.
SID: The judge could have put you away for life. Sentencing day, tell me about it.
JOHN: Sentencing day comes around and in Minnesota we have the career criminal division, and when they prosecute you these guys are, they have no sympathy, no empathy for anything. It’s like you have crossed over the line. You have went over the sentencing guidelines. They’re, you know, we’re going to put you away for as long as humanly possible. Well the prosecutor that was prosecuting me, all of a sudden wasn’t there that day, and this guy really disliked me. He had prosecuted my son, my cousins and everybody. The judge had seen me time and time again, and was just tired of me. But that day, I had like nine months before I came for sentencing, and the judge told me, he’s seeing something different in me. And my lawyer was arguing for the ten-year, you know, let’s get him ten years. And I told my lawyer, “Just chill out, man.” And the judge said, “I’m going to give you probation. I don’t know why.”
SID: No time in jail?
JOHN: No time in jail.
SID: That’s a miracle. So those two prayers you prayed, I think God instantly answered them.
JOHN: He instantly answered them. And the place that I got shamed and got arrested at, that the cameras came to, they not only rehired me, but they promoted me.
SID: When you were talking about that day when the cameras were there, I saw crocodile tears coming out of your eyes. Why?
JOHN: There’s no way to explain when God does what he does and how blessed I was to receive it. I owe him everything and he did it for me, for me right there and then regardless of my past or anything. He did it for me.
SID: Would he do this for anyone if their past was even worse than yours?
JOHN: He would do it for any one of his children in an instant.
SID: Would you pray for the ones that are looking right now, and you know who you are, because God has been dealing with you and he loves as much as he loves John Turnipseed. He loves as much as he loves me. He loves you enough to die for you.
JOHN: God, you know us. We’re your babies. Father, sometimes we are disobedient. Sometimes we do not do what we’re supposed to do. But father, you told us that you loved us so much in John 3:16, that whoever believed in you shall not perish, but have everlasting life. And Father, we’re your babies. We need you in our life. Knock down the barriers for the ones that don’t believe in you, Father. Just knock the barriers down and let them know that you’re there, Father, because only until you come will they know how great you are, Father. So please, Jesus, just give us unyielded, unrestrained favor, today, Father, even if we don’t deserve it, Jesus. Amen.
SID: You know what? The Bible says if you confess your sins he is just and faithful to forgive you of all, all, all, no matter what you’ve done. Real quick, tell me the first message you ever gave, your first sermon.
JOHN: My first sermon, I gave my life to Christ and I went back to school to become a minister. I went to a funeral that another pastor was supposed to do. I get a phone call because he’s not there and it’s from a cousin of mine that tells me, “Hey, Johnny,” that’s what he called me, “I’m just telling you this because I know you’re at that funeral. The pastor ain’t showing up. The pastor owes us a whole lot of money and for drugs and I’m just telling.” Yeah, it’s hard to believe. “And until Monday, he’s gonna stay right here. So tell the family.” So I went to the family and I told them, I didn’t tell them whole story. I just said, “The pastor won’t show up.” And I said, “But I’m a pastor.” “You are?” And I said, “Yeah.” And they asked me, “Well would you do the service because the funeral home is waiting.” And I said, “I will.” And when I got up to speak the crowd there, I heard cursing.
SID: They know about you.
JOHN: He’s a pimp. He’s a thug. You know, he did this to me. I mean, all of this. And God just, I felt him. And I went up and I opened the service up with John 3:16. And I’ll tell you how I said it. I said, “For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him, even Johnny Turnipseed, shall not perish, but have everlasting life.” And then I told them, “I don’t know about the God you serve, but the one I serve said that and meant that, and I’m going to do this service.” And I got a standing ovation.
SID: Well now. What about that large extended family of pimps and fatherlessness, and prison, and murders, 34 members of your family serving time for murder right now? What’s going on with all of that family?
JOHN: Most of them that are in prison are saved.
SID: What percent would you say are saved?
JOHN: I would say 90 percent. I would say 90 percent. My children are saved. My brothers are saved. We are no longer raising criminals. We’re raising hopefully little preachers, you know. That’s my greatest hope. That’s bigger than the president in my family.
SID: Okay. With your family, you broke the curses. How can people watching you right now break the curses over their family, whether it’s sickness or whether it’s divorce, or whether it’s prison, or whether it’s addictions? Whatever. How?
JOHN: What I had to do with my family is we had to sit down and come face to face with these are the things, and be honest, that are plaguing our family, okay: the prostitution and the gang, and the drugs, all of that, father absence, men walking away from their children. We had to say some very unpleasant things about the reality of who we were. Okay. And then in agreement with each other we had to act on it. And then we had to arm ourself because the enemy came and he, man, did he ever come. When I started talking this message he started attacking my family more than he had, because before he could just leave us alone because we were doing it all by ourself. But once we started, we armed ourself with the Word and the blood of Jesus Christ and stuff that he had to back off. He had to back off.
SID: Did you hear that? He armed himself with the Word of God and the blood of Jesus. That’s why they had to back off. And I tell you the devil, the curses, are backing off in Jesus’ name.
We’ll be right back to It’s Supernatural.
SID: Hello. Welcome. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest was a career criminal. His extended family consisted of drug dealers, drug addicts, pimps, prostitutes, fatherlessness. He had 34 members of his family in prison as of now for murder. I mean, this pervaded the whole family. He had an encounter with the Messiah. He learned about bloodline curses, began to break them on himself, on his family, his extended family and he has a passion to help you break. Now by the way, these curses can be things like sickness, like poverty and their bloodline. It’s passed through the blood and you can stop it, and his passion is to help you. Are you ready? Now I have John Turnipseed here with me and we were talking a bit about bloodline curses. What is your understanding of a bloodline curse?
JOHN: My understanding of a bloodline curse is if you can look back into your family and certain things, devastating things, not just like a cold or anything. I’m talking about things such as like cancer and things of people being unemployed and prostitution or sexual immorality and things of that nature, or people going to prison, if you can trace that back one generation it might be a mistake, an abnormality. But if it happens in two or three, there’s definitely something going on there and you’d better address it right then because it can carry on into other generations.
SID: Now you don’t look old enough for that, but you tell me that you traced these things in your own family back four generations.
JOHN: Yes, starting with my father. My father got shot at a young age, did a robbery at a young age, went to prison and abandoned us as a father. I got shot at 16, abandoned my kids and went to prison for ten years. My son Little Johnny got shot 17 times, abandoned his nine kids and went to prison for 15 years, and his son got shot at a very young age in his teenage years and is doing life without the possibility of parole. Every generation it got uglier and stronger, and that’s when I knew that I had to do something.
SID: That’s an interesting point. I hope you didn’t miss it. He said that each generation it was getting worse in his family line. How big is the Turnipseed family that you’re talking about?
JOHN: We are the largest family in Minnesota. A family reunion for us is a couple thousand people.
SID: Wow. And how many would you say percentage-wise has this curse affected?
JOHN: I would say in most of the generations, probably 75 to 90 percent.
SID: You were raised in a loving home. You had a good childhood in Alabama.
SID: All of a sudden, uprooted to Minneapolis. Let’s take a look at this clip.
Man 1: I was six years old when the boogeyman started to haunt me.
Man 1: I prayed he’d go away, but I guess when your father is the devil you can’t expect God to answer your prayers.
Boy: Virgil, come!
Man 1: You can’t take the boogeyman down.
Boy: Don’t make me beat you again!
Man 1: You’ll find someone who can.
Man 2: Ever since I was a kid I ran these streets by whatever means necessary.
Man 3: Oh one more thing, John, you walk in my courtroom one more time, just one more time, you will not see another human being for as long as you live.
SID: You know, it’s hard to even comprehend this lost, scared little boy went on to become a gang leader, a pimp, a drug dealer. He was shot, stabbed, abducted, addicted to cocaine, armed robberies, in and out of prison. How did that happen?
JOHN: Well with a father not being around and nobody to supervise me, I was basically, my father wasn’t there, the head of the household. My mother was sick and hurt, and I would venture out into the neighborhood. And down the street from where I lived, because there was no authority over of me, a group of pimps and thugs took me in and they showed me what I thought was love. And I went, I grabbed and held onto it for all I could, and it led me to penitentiaries and everything. I was pulling armed robberies at 12 years of age.
SID: But you were raised in the church.
SID: Your father was raised in the church.
SID: And how does someone that has a little bit of teaching, just a little, do cold-blooded things such as you did?
JOHN: Well I was raised in the church, and when I was six or seven years old my grandmother told me I was going to be John the Baptist. I was going to be a preacher, so I would practice preaching at five and six years of age, and it was my destiny. We had intact families down there. Everybody was married, no alcohol. Everybody went to church and worked hard. Good family. And my father comes up here by himself and a couple years later when we came up here, he was not the same person. He went from being my hero to the boogeyman and he, I was scared of him. I didn’t like him and he beat my mother every single day, and I couldn’t understand. And I prayed every day for God to stop it in my little bitty mind all by itself and it didn’t happen for me. And one day I stopped praying and I became very angry at God, and I thought, that’s it. All that stuff you guys have told me, my grandmother, that’s hocus-pocus. That doesn’t work. I prayed and he still beats my mother. So how does a nine-year-old child deal with that?
SID: But when you got involved in this life of crime, wasn’t there even a twinge saying, this is wrong, I shouldn’t do this, a twinge of remorse?
JOHN: At first. Pretty soon, the conscience gets put to sleep.
SID: It’s called seared.
JOHN: And then it’s gone.
SID: You told me that when you were involved in these things it was almost like a high.
JOHN: Absolutely. There was no greater thrill to me than going and putting a pistol in someone’s face and humiliating them, and making them give me all their money.
SID: You hated your father, as you explained. But then you became just like the one you hated.
SID: You became just like your father. That curse that was haunting you was causing you to move in these areas and probably even giving you that high that you had for crime.
JOHN: Oh absolutely. The curse that came upon me became so strong in me that I was able to persuade others to follow me. I was able to, I was 18 years old. I was in prison for the first time with a thousand men and I took over the prison, just had them following me to this path that I was on, and because I was so taught so well how to influence people for my own benefit that I was able to send a lot of young men down a very dark path.
SID: But you had some good role models in prison. Did you really want to change?
JOHN: God kept sending angels to me.
SID: What do you mean?
JOHN: He sent, I wouldn’t go to school and one day I wanted to do weightlifting and this weightlifter told me that he wouldn’t teach me weightlifting unless I got my GED. So I went and studied the book and took the GED test a week later and passed it. And then there was another guy who came and visited me in prison and told me I was, insulted me by telling me I was a total waste of human life because I wouldn’t educate myself. And I went to school and got a degree in computers. And there was a guy named Father Cappucci [sp], a Catholic priest, that when I would act up he was the only one that could calm me down because I knew he was one of God’s boys and I didn’t want to offend him. So God kept sending, he never, I didn’t realize it until later on in life, he sent the cavalry to me, to prepare me.
SID: God is so good.
JOHN: He is that good.
SID: Now you hated your dad.
JOHN: Hated him.
SID: Wanted to kill him and when you had a child it would be different, but it wasn’t.
JOHN: It was not different. My first child actually came into the world. She was, I was shot, the mother was shot and she was shot by a gunman that was trying to kill me. We all lived, but I brought that evil, that evil followed me into my household and tried to execute my family.
SID: It’s all part of that curse.
JOHN: All part of the curse. But the angel of God, the mercy of God was there.
SID: Your life was in and out of prisons. You had a skill, but you were living a double life, a life as a normal person and a life because that curse would not leave you alone. You were going to be arrested. You knew it. You were in your office. A television crew showed up. Describe that to me.
JOHN: I had been caught, put in jail and arraigned on probably a couple hundred felonies. And I agreed to plead guilty to 50 of them if they would let me out to finish teaching a class. See, I was, when God had sent those angels I had gotten the skill of teaching and I had students. So I went back to teach these students. Nobody knew I went to jail and I was going to go to prison. I barricaded myself in my office and I started crying. I started crying. I wanted to kill myself and something from my childhood came to me: my grandmother telling me just, “Boy, just reach to God. Reach to Jesus.” That’s what that voice came to me. And I asked him right there, right there I said, “God, if you are who my grandmother said you are, you have to come right now.” And he came right then and there. And I know he came. I call him the gangster. When that gangster came into my life, you know, I can’t describe it. I cannot describe how I felt that moment. I got up. Everybody was waiting outside my office. I came out smiling. I had dirt all over my suit, mud running down my face. I didn’t care. Jesus came and got me.
SID: He was real.
JOHN: He was real.
SID: I’ll tell you something. When we come back, you think you have problems, 50 felonies, a judge that hates him. He’s facing ten years to life. He could be put away forever. But the same God that rescued him, the same God that is ready to rescue you, it’s a miracle. I’ll be right back.
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest Perry Stone, since age 16, has been studying Heaven, End Times. He has spent well over 100,000 hours and he has come up with revelations that as far as scholars are concerned, no one has ever come up with before about Heaven and End Times. He even has come up with a revelation about the 2016 presidential election. Anyone interested? You know, when I found out that Perry Stone was working on the subject of Heaven and New Jerusalem, I got so excited. I can’t even tell you why I got so excited, but I got so excited I had to have him on this show. But I’m told an event occurred when you were 16 years of age that started you on this quest.
PERRY: Salem High School, it was a high school in southern Virginia, a boy came up to me at 16 years of age, I was 16, and I was preaching at that time just as a kid preacher. And I had a big Bible with me, and he said, “Preacher man, what are you going to do when you die and find out there’s not a Heaven?” I was always real quick to answer and I said, “Jimmy, what you gonna do when you die and find out there’s a hell?” And then, but what happened is it stirred and I thought, how would I prove to somebody, kind of more from a scientific perspective that there is a place called Heaven. And so that’s what really started my journey and it was just, it’s been exciting to, even over the years, even recently to add more to what God showed me.
SID: You got revelations. We’re going to share some of them. But here’s what I want you to help me with and I think you’re going to help a lot of other people. Take me, very briefly, on a prophetic timeline starting where we are right now.
PERRY: Okay. Right now we’re in the church age, which is called the dispensation of the grace of God. It will continue and climax at the time of the Rapture. Now I lean toward pre-trib because of a lot of research over the years that we have done. Now let’s just assume this is correct. Then what we have at that point is a tribulation period, which in Daniel 9:27 is set for seven years. It’s divided into 42 months and 42 months. And what would happen is the return of the Lord, and I like to say for the overcoming saints who are looking for him. When that happens, it triggers a time of tribulation on the earth, which is a total of seven years. During the seven years the saints will begin having, getting rewards and also we will enjoy what’s called a Marriage Supper of the Lamb during the seven years in Heaven. On Earth, there is judgment, there’s the revelation of the Antichrist, there’s the Mark of the Beast. There’s a lot of population of the earth that is eliminated by, some of it’s just natural calamities, asteroids, earthquakes, etc. We come to the end of the tribulation. We have the Lord returning, Revelation 19 says, “On a white horse is King of King and Lord of Lords.” And then he sets up his kingdom in Jerusalem for a thousand years. That’s where we get the word “millennial reign”. That’s a thousand. And during that thousand years the saints of God are going to rule on Earth with him for a thousand years. At the end of it, Satan is loosed for a season. Now the only reason he loosed, Sid, because this has perplexed people, why don’t God keep him bound? Because in the millennial reign there will be people on Earth who will continue to repopulate the earth that have never been tempted, tested or tried by Satan. So God is going to let earthly people who are living in the tribulation, who have survived being repopulated to be tested to see if they’re going to be faithful to the Lord or follow Satan. That’s the last test. Then when that is over, the Bible tells us there’s a Great White Throne of Judgment in Heaven and then Satan is bound forever in the lake of fire, which is going to be a tremendous day for everyone who is a believer, of course. The new Heaven and new Earth come down after the Great White Throne of Judgment. This judgment, every single angel that’s fallen, Satan himself, plus all saints, all unbelievers, all are in Heaven at one time. Now we’ve already been judged as believers as the judgment seat of Christ. Okay. That’s in Revelation, Chapter 11. But the world and the sinners have not been judged. God is never going to condemn anyone to an eternity without him, in let’s say the lake of fire, without them absolutely seeing and knowing the reason why. That’s why there’s a Great White Throne of Judgment.
SID: You know, Perry, you teach on the mysteries, unlocking the mysteries of Heaven, past, present and future. Explain.
PERRY: The Holy Spirit put something together for me that I had never heard taught in my life. I believe it can be proven, from Ezekiel 28, from the Book of Revelation, from Isaiah 14, that Lucifer, who we know is Satan, before he fell, was assisting God in the building of the New Jerusalem. The fall of Lucifer took place before the New Jerusalem was completed, and I’ll get into that later. Now that’s called the ages past. Creation as we know it with man is 6000. What a lot of people don’t realize is there’s what’s called ages past, and ages past was, okay, when was Lucifer created, when were the angels created. He was in Heaven as a cherub before he fell. When was that? When did the rebellion take place where he took a third of the angels and they fell with him? That’s the ages past part. In fact, I’m going to throw a nugget out here to all your folks. In the Bible it says Hell was prepared for the devil and his angels, but when was Hell prepared? Scientists say that the earth was at one time molten fire and water cool[ed it], and that’s how the process began. In Genesis 1:1, the earth is created perfect. You studied Hebrew. You know that, “In the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth.” The tense there is complete perfection, like a perfect, it’s done.
PERRY: Verse 2, “Everything is without form and void.” The fall of Lucifer happened between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 in ages past.
SID: So in ages past there is a gap and we don’t even know how long that was.
PERRY: Thankyou. That’s exactly what I’m saying. We don’t know how long the gap is. And that explains, if I can, the controversy as to why Christians say there’s a 6000-year old earth, scientists say it’s a four billion-year old earth.
SID: There’s an answer to everything.
PERRY: There absolutely is an answer if we understand the fall of Lucifer and the gap in Genesis 1:1 and 1:2, and the timeframe there.
SID: Let’s go to some basics.
SID: Where is Heaven located?
PERRY: If you look at Isaiah, Chapter 14, Satan says, “I will descend into Heaven above the stars of God and above the clouds in the sides of the north.” The northern part of Heaven is very unique because there’s a star there called the North Star or Polaris, which sits just a little bit off of true north. Anytime you needed direction you had to find the North Star. Anytime a ship needed direction you find the North Star. It’s the directional star. What is interesting, Job said, “God stretches the north over the empty place, but he hangs the earth on nothing.” Two scientific facts there, this what I learned when I was 16. One is the earth is hanging on nothing, but what’s this thing about the north being an empty place? I have a friend of mine, I have several friends who work for NASA and they say it’s really true that in the northern part of the heavens there is an empty place and there’s a gap. It’s just an empty, a darkness, a gap. All right. The Bible indicates that. North is the only place where you look, really, true up. All right. So Heaven is in the north. Now number two, Isaiah said, it was Satan talking, but Isaiah wrote it, “I’ll send above the clouds, above the stars in the sides to the north.” That’s three heavens. Paul in Second Corinthians—
SID: I heard about Second Heaven. How many heavens are there?
PERRY: The Bible tells you of three. There are three heavens and the Bible indicates specifically what those three are: clouds, stars then the end of the stars, that begins the Third Heaven, and that’s where God dwells is in the Third Heaven.
SID: And where does the devil dwell and his demons?
PERRY: Let me say it this way. Adam was given dominion over the fowls of the air. The birds if you ever see them fly in the sky near the clouds, so Adam, man has dominion of the First Heaven. That’s why we have airplanes that aren’t falling out of the sky. The devil is not knocking airplanes out of the sky. We can fly. We have dominion. We have satellites. Number two, however, is Satan rules in the realm of the Second Heaven. Principalities, rulers of darkness in high places are in Second Heaven. Third Heaven is where God rules. So it’s interesting how that between where we are to where God is we have this spiritual warfare going on. Here’s the part that just absolutely stuns me. I love this part. Jesus, when he returns, doesn’t come back up in the stars, and we have to meet him where the stars are. He comes right back into Satan’s territory and snatches us out so fast that the enemy doesn’t even know it’s happened until it’s over with.
SID: I’m going to tell you something. I want you to talk about never revealed. No scholars have ever heard this. Revelations, you have God about the mountain in Heaven, the stones in Heaven, about Lucifer. We’ll be right back.
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest had cancer three times. Nothing the doctors could do for him. In desperation he went to Oral Roberts just before Oral was promoted to Heaven. Oral prayed for him. His cancer went away, but he got something new, the supernatural gift of faith and he wants to impart that to you. Anyone want it? Okay, I have James Goll here. He’s a good friend. I’ve known him many years. I trust his prophetic word. That’s why the devil tried to take him out. Thirty times he gets cancer. Doctors say there’s nothing they can do. In desperation he goes to Oral Roberts and asks for prayer. What happened?
JAMES: Well it was an amazing encounter, a God encounter. And so went from Nashville, Tennessee with a white mask on. My white blood count was dangerously low. There was nothing more the doctors could do, my third bout with non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma cancer. So to tell a story short, then towards the end of the time in his home I was sitting on this little ottoman at the chair where Oral Roberts was sitting and he laid his hands on me.
SID: You’re provoking me to jealousy. I wanted to go there. I never made it.
JAMES: I really wanted to be there, too, and so, and I wasn’t even on the list to get invited, and I heard about it, and I said, God I want to be there. And then all at the last moment I got invited, so I got your invitation. Okay.
SID: Wait a second.
JAMES: God does things for desperate people. Okay. It was something like that. So here I am in Oral Roberts’ home and then towards the end if you wanted prayer you could be prayed for. Well I wanted prayer. That’s what I went for. And I thought, I really believed in my knower that I was going to be the last person that Oral Roberts would pray for that would get healed. I’m sitting there and he says, “I want you to know I have never prayed for anyone for longer than 15 seconds.” And I’m going, “I don’t care. One second will work.” And so he lays his hands on me, and he said this, and it’s marked in memory for all the days of my life. And he laid his hands upon on me, and he said, “I eradicate every cancer cell in your body and I command it to never come back again.” And I felt like a lightning bolt of the presence of God went down on the inside of me. It was amazing. And something happened. Guess what happened?
SID: I know what happened.
JAMES: What happened?
SID: You got healed.
JAMES: I got healed.
SID: But now you know me. I am just so curious about God. I get so excited about God.
SID: What did it really, you said lightning bolt. I know that word. Did it really feel that way?
JAMES: I don’t know else to say it. It was an energizing power, presence of the Holy Spirit. It was external and then with his laying of hands it went and deposited in me, in me. And what I actually believe it was, was the gift of faith.
SID: Okay. So you got a double thing. The cancer went out.
JAMES: That’s right.
SID: And this gift of faith went in. Had you ever had such a gift like this?
JAMES: No. I had moved in discerning of spirits on a regular basis. I moved in prophecy for 30-some years and different gifts of the spirit. But I would say that that was not one of my strong points and I had not really regularly functioned in the gift of faith. But I ended up at doctors. My white blood count was supernaturally raised. My blood count was all fine after this and I go back, to this day, once a year for a checkup and seven years later the cancer has never come back. And guess what? It’s never coming back again.
SID: I agree. Now I know you have faith for people that have cancer to pray for them. But you have something new that I’m excited about. I’m so excited. This same supernatural gift of faith that was imparted to him from the laying of hands of Oral Roberts, he by speaking can impart that to other people. Now you recently had downloaded a teaching that is really revolutionary on gifts of the Spirit. Tell me about this.
JAMES: Oh my goodness.
SID: Tell me about when it happened. I want to know that.
JAMES: Well actually it’s been a deposit over years. And like many people you sit under teaching and then it builds up and builds up, and builds up, and being a teacher myself and a pastor in the past, and recognized as a prayer and prophet leader. So there’s been this build-up. But then I go to teach this material and I go to teach it all over again and the Lord gives me a dream, and I’m going out, and I’m saying to the Lord, I’m saying, Lord, there’s a piece missing. There’s a piece missing. I know you have the piece. What is the piece? And I get this, and it comes to me so clear and simple, and it was releasing spiritual gifts today. And the Holy Spirit emphasized the word “today” and the word “today” resonated on the inside of me, and then I understood Hebrews 11:1 better. “Now faith is.” Faith isn’t about yesterday nor is it projected to the future. Now it is present. It is present tense. Now faith is. And that’s how spiritual gifts are, releasing, receiving and releasing spiritual gifts, when? Yesterday? Thank God for everything that’s gone on in the past. Thank God for what’s going to happen in the future, but how about faith for the release of spiritual gifts today.
SID: Well faith is always now and that’s what you do with your teaching. Everything you teach is not by the time you develop your muscles, your spiritual muscles. It’s now. I like it. I think God is in a hurry. I think God wants to show him some before people that don’t know him and what happens if all believers are equipped to demonstrate the Kingdom, the signs and wonders. In fact, define to me “spiritual gifts.”
JAMES: Well they’re not natural talents. Some people think that you get like a gift that matches your personality. Not necessarily, really. Okay. Sometimes, but no. It’s supernatural. I think there’s a television show that’s out today and I have this friend, and he wears these like bright ties sometimes.
SID: All the time.
JAMES: A different one on every show and it’s called something like “It’s Supernatural.” Well the spiritual gifts are that way, Sid. They’re not natural. They’re supernatural ability of God that he deposits by grace and they’re free gifts that he gives to his people to demonstrate his love through them to others.
SID: Briefly tell me about an example of using these gifts, like in Albania.
JAMES: Awesome. Oh well. Right after communism had lifted and I was one of the first people into Albania and I had ministered in the capitol in Tirana for a while, they take me up the coast, and it’s dark, it’s raining. I’m on the cliff overlooking the Adriatic Sea and I’m saying, O God, O God, O God, what do you have for these ancient Shqiperian people? And a word floats to my mind and it is “Sarah.” There was no worship. It was a cold building. It was raining. It was not a good atmosphere. It was like January. And so I’m up there and I had to talk with my interpreter, and, oh my goodness, it didn’t seem like I was getting very far. So we cried help. But guess what? The helper answers and he says to me, and he reminds me, “Sarah.” So I turned to my interpreter and I said, “How do you say Sarah in Shqiperian He says, “Sabrina.” So then I speak and the interpreter interprets, and I try to tell this. And I said, “Is there a Sabrina here?” Place is packed. Everybody knows everybody. No one is a believer. And so one lady stands in the back, and I go, Praise God, Hallelujah Jesus. Sabrina was there. So she stands. So I say, “Sabrina, come to the front.” She’s now standing there. Words of knowledge are coming to me. “Your name is Sabrina. You have never heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ in your lifetime. You’re 32 years old. You have a tumor in your left breast and Jesus wants to heal you.”
SID: That’s called stepping out.
JAMES: Yes it was. And guess what? Her name was Sabrina. She had never heard Jesus. She had a thick winter coat. She had cancer and a tumor in her left breast. She gets healed, saved, delivered all right then in front of everybody.
SID: I’m going to tell you something. When we come back James has revelation on the working of miracles. I want him to teach about that. Be right back.
SID: Now LaDonna teaches the same truths her parents taught. Her son teaches the same truths she taught. But these are Osborns. Do you teach just regular people these same truths? And here’s the big question, do they get the same results?
LaDONNA: Yes. Yes. Every place we go, what we do is done in such a way that the people there understand that this is the ideal of God’s life for them. And they go everywhere. They scatter, praying for the sick, seeing miracles, winning souls, building churches.
SID: You know, I’m in favor of supernatural gifting. I operate in supernatural gifting. But what LaDonna is teaching is for everyone. LaDonna, tell me about a creative miracle that’s one of your favorites from your prayers.
LaDONNA: This little boy, six years old, was born without a kneecap. He never walked. He heard on the radio that there were miracles happening at this Festival of Faith and Miracles, and so he told his father, “Take me there and I’ll be healed.” So the father put the child on his shoulders and walked, did the trek to the crusade grounds. And did you know that the moment that father’s feet touched the grounds, that little boy just said, “Okay, put me down.” Now that’s faith. Expecting matter of factly that something, like the woman in the Bible, “When I touch him, I’ll be made clean.” We can declare the time for our miracle. He said, “Put me down.” So the father put him down. That child had a kneecap, a creative miracle. He was running all around. He never heard a sermon. He never heard a prayer. But he believed in the miracle power of Jesus Christ.
SID: I’m going to challenge you right now. Here’s my challenge. I am going to turn LaDonna loose to teach just as she teaches at one of these campaigns and you will become like a little child. Only believe. All things are possible to those who believe. LaDonna.
LaDONNA: You see, when we teach everywhere in the world as I’m coming to you now, we begin by declaring that the Word of God is true, that God is not a liar, and that he has given promises. And he has demonstrated his good will through the example, the ministry of Jesus, God in the flesh who came to Earth. So important that we understand. And an example, and I love to give these examples when I minister globally, was the leper that came to Jesus in Matthew, chapter 8. You remember, he came and while we don’t understand the restrictions on lepers so much today, they had to live segregated. They couldn’t be around people. If they came near, they had to call out, “Unclean! Unclean!” Imagine declaring yourself unclean all the time. Depression, the demoralization of the leper in Jesus’ day. Well this leper, the Bible says, came to Jesus. Wow. So we start out by learning that we must come to Jesus without fear. And the man said to Jesus, listen to this, he said, “If you are willing, you are able to make me clean.” Now that’s a question that plagues so many Christians. That question becomes a hindrance to their miracle. They know that Jesus can do miracles. They know he has the power. They know he’s healed others. And yet, they’re not sure will he heal me. And that question becomes a block. Well we learn the answer by observing what Jesus did. He touched the leper. He was not afraid to be contaminated. My friend, he’ll touch you no matter what has contaminated your life or what issue you may be dealing with. He touched leper. That’s love. That’s power. And he said, these are the words, he said, “I want to. I’m willing. Be clean.” And the Bible says, immediately that man’s skin was healed. So you see, if we can just come to Jesus with faith, if we’re willing to expose even our unbelief to him and trust his answer, his answer is yes. And so we come to him, we lay our issue before him and we hear his yes. By faith then we receive. Can it be that simple? The scripture says, “I’m the Lord your healer.” Can you believe that, accept the yes of Jesus? Let me pray for you. Put your hand wherever you want Jesus to touch you. Heavenly Father, look at the people that come into with faith. Touch them where they’re touching themselves. May they feel your presence and may your healing life go through them now. I command every spirit of disease and infirmity to leave the people and do not come back. For you have been defeated by the resurrected Jesus. And now Lord, may your healing life flow through the people. In Jesus’ name, receive your healing. You are healed now. Say amen.