Sid: This is a program that you didn’t know that is an answer to your prayer because I have Betsy and Chester Kylstra who were a mess and they’re open and transparent about it. You find out that you’re not the only one that’s a mess on planet earth that’s a spirit filled believer. That you’re typical but God doesn’t want you to be a typical mess God wants you to fulfill your destiny. So Chester Kylstra, tell me just a brief summary of what happens to people that take your courses?
Chester: Yeah, well what the Lord showed us through his revelation of four ministry sources from which all of our problems come. And those weren’t new in themselves to the body of Christ but the need to minister in an integrated way to all four. And we refer to them sometimes as the four doors or the four legal grounds. It comes out of Genesis 4:7 and 8 when God says to Cain you know “Sin is crouching at your door and its desire is to have you or control you.” And the implication was don’t let it, but of course Cain did. So the first source of our problems we call it the context of our lives comes out of the 2nd commandment where the iniquity of the fathers are visited or past on down to the children for 3 or 4 generations and so here we are. We inherit what the 30 people ahead of us had passed down to us and so the ancestral sins is one of them. That sort of sets the…
Sid: You know my logical mind says we should not have to deal with all of those generation of people. I mean I can’t even go back more than a few generations in my life.
Sid: There’s no way I’m going to know all of the generational sins that my ancestors dealt with.
Chester: That’s right so that’s where the Holy Spirit comes in. We both observe what’s going on in our lives in our extended family but we also ask the Holy Spirit what are the roots.
Sid: You know you made a statement you say that God sees man in terms of families and generations, we don’t think in those terms.
Chester: That’s right that’s so obvious Sid as we read the scriptures and so anyway that’s the first open door sets us up. Then the third open door is we get wounded because of all our families are dysfunctional or we’re dysfunctional or our friends that we have. Our hearts get wounded, we rejected we get abandoned and we get victimized on and on and on. The list is quite long, but I’m trying to summarize so I’m not going to go through the whole list. Out of our hurt hearts then the fascinating thing the human brain has to make sense or understand what’s going on. And so we try to figure out why are these things happening to me, and anytime we decide “Well, this is happening to me because” and that because is a lie out of the pit of hell then we’ve just come into agreement with the Kingdom of darkness. And as I said about my lies I had believed by my dad dying and rejecting I thought I was rejected. Was that no one wants to be immediate important people in my life will leave me and abandon me. I’m all alone I have to take care of myself and on in that vein, a whole bunch of victim orphan type thinking lies. Unfortunately as I said every lie is an agreement with the kingdom of darkness to the father of lies. So these three open doors of our wounded heart, our messed up thinking, which is by the way Paul says “We have to get our minds renewed” Romans 12:2. They just set up the fourth door which is demonic depression, where we give legal access for the demons to come after us. God showed us we need to deal with all four of these areas in a very interrelated integrated way if we really want deep and lasting healing. And we are seeing that over and over and we’ve seen it for over 20 years.
Sid: Okay there is something that is literally epidemic in our society. The institution of marriage it’s like in another few years if things keep going the way they are it won’t even exist. Even in Christian families I’m amazed that the number of divorces there are and they don’t want it, but it’s like because they know what the Bible says about divorce. It’s happening and then the wounding that happened to the children of a divorce. Have you been able to help people that are on the verge of divorce?
Chester: Oh yes it’s so much fun to help them.
Betsy: We have a lot of times a couple have to us and they’ll just say “This is our last step before the divorce court.” So they’ve been helped by the books and the materials and then that gives them hope that they actually come and have somebody lead them through a prayer time that maybe their marriage can be saved. But a particular story I’d like to share with you is of a little girl who was 8 years old and her decided her mother had read the materials and listened to the CDs and her mother decided to bring this child because the little girl was saying “Mommy I just don’t want to live anymore, mommy I don’t have any desire to live.” And what had happened to this little girl as she had been totally traumatized by the fighting that her parents had done screaming at each other, hitting each other before they actually got the divorce. And the little girl would run into her closet and close the door, put her clothes over her head so she didn’t have to hear the screaming and fighting. Then when her parents got divorced somehow she felt it was her fault. If she had just been a better little girl this wouldn’t of happened and so she was carrying all of this pain and guilt. So when she came for…
Sid: So she was dealing with shame too, she thought she was responsible for her parents’ divorce.
Chester: What was the matter with me?
Betsy: Yeah. She was dealing with the whole shame and fear and she was traumatized by the parents fighting. And so when the Lord came to meet her she saw herself in the closet which had been her hiding place, where she had listened to her parents fighting. And Jesus came as a very bright light at first that’s what she saw. And then she saw Him come and she leaned against His chest and she just began to give Him all her pain and her guilt and her sadness and her 8 year old words for trauma. The Lord just took it, took all of that out of her heart and she began to live again and she told her mom I want to live again. That was the beginning of her healing journey.
Sid: You know it’s just overwhelming to me Betsy and Chester the problems every human on this earth has it’s got to be the most rewarding thing in the world because God not only set the two of you free but he’s given you keys to set other people free. And over the years you’ve streamlined these keys tell me about the history of Biblical healing and deliverance.
Chester: Well, its original form “Restoring the Foundations” which we call our larger book was written back in ’94 we’d been teaching for several years now. We were ministering to this large ministry on the Gulf Coast of Florida. They’d invited us in for a year or two to minister to all of their leadership and they like what happened so much they asked if they could host a conference and have us lead it. And that was our first conference Sid and it was amazing. We thought did anybody really want to come, we weren’t totally free of shame yet at that point. (Laughing) We had over 250 people come, but we wanted to have a take away and so we wrote the first version of the book and showed how these four areas are there and how they interrelate and how to get free of them. And it was just wonderful conference and people are very grateful and then in the next couple of years we finished the book and got it into a good form. Then a publisher liked it but said “This big books too big can you reduce its size so we can take it into the bookstore.” And that’s where Biblical Healing and Ministry…
Sid: Well, well it’s so simple and because of what you’ve learned over all of these years how many years have you been practicing this?
Chester: Well, we’re well over 25 years now although we like to time it from our first official going into a church and ministry to leadership and raising up ministry teams and we call that when they paid us to do it. That was when we were officially in the ministry Sid and so that’s been from ’90.
Sid: Okay people are still bound up after being Christians for so many years and that’s why you have your 3 CD series “True Identity” which deals with shame, fear and control so they don’t have to be bound up. The book we’ve been talking about “Biblical Healing and Deliverance” and the prayer card which has these four integrated prayers which I mean you’ve made it so simple, I mean you guys have come a long way Betsy and Chester. But I’ll tell you what I think the problems are so compounded with Christians today more than any generation that has ever lived.
Sid: My guest LA Marzulli, I’m introducing his brand new book just off the press “On the Trail of the Nephilim.” As you recall the Nephilim were mentioned in the Bible they were the falling angels that bred with the daughters of men and produced giants. And speaking of giants LA Marzulli tell me some of the skeletons and the skulls you’ve found in North America that prove that these children of the Nephilim were really in North America before the Native Americans.
LA: Well, we hear over and over again from these reports that are in the ancient you know the newspaper articles that we’ll say from the later part of the 19 century to the 20th of 9-10 and 12 footers being taken out of the mounds in Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana, Illinois all through the mid-west. And then of course it comes down to the southwest and over to California. We hear that there’s a giant race which is really interesting and I interviewed the man by the name of Robert Mirabal who is a full-blooded American past Pueblo who were also a Grammy Award composer. So he created this sort of a tableau sort of a scene called “Still Walker.” When I saw this thing I was blown away from it. And the opening phrases of this presentation that he does and it’s dramatic lighting and everyone is full native regalia and costumes he’s narrating off camera. And he’s talking about when the sky gods saw the daughters of men and that they were… and it mirrors Genesis 6 I mean almost exactly of course I fell out of my chair
Sid: And they call them the sky gods that’s interesting.
LA: Sky gods.
Sid: Okay go ahead.
LA: Sky god had sex with the men and woman and created these giants. These giants would live in the mountains and so the braves would go out and hunt and they show all this and he’s narrating this this thing. Well out of the wings on the stage comes this man on stilts and he’s well over you know 10 – 12 feet tall; he’s absolutely huge and it’s very very deliberate. So I looked at the thing and watched what he said, watched the whole thing and I contracted Mirabal and my first question to him “Robert where did you get this from?” And he told me it was an oral tradition passed down from his grandfather to himself, and his grandfather got it from his grandfather, and back and back and back it goes. And I asked him point blank “So you believe that there were giants on the earth?” He said absolutely they were telepathic, they could read your mind, and they were from the sky gods.” Then I asked him “Well, Robert let me ask you something, we believe that the sky gods could be fallen angels.” And he immediately said “Yes, you can go that way too.” Now I’m not saying he believes that, but he showed recognition; at least recognized that part of this could be what we believe of course is fallen angels because it mirrors totally dove tails with Genesis 6.
Sid: Now in your book you talk about the early settlers started digging into these mounds that were used for religious purposes sacrificing children, demonic religious purposes. And they actually found skeletons of giant men and how tall were they from the skeletons?
LA: Well, there is a lot of 8 footers very common but you get some real big guys in there between 9 and 12 feet tall.
Sid: And some of them, in fact I’m reminded in the Bible it talks about someone who had 6 fingers and 6 toes.
Sid: They found that also in the skeletal remains?
LA: Yes we know from the Bible that Goliath’s brothers specially had six fingers and six toes; we know that the Bible tells us very specifically it’s written in the text that this is what a sort of genetic anomaly that these brothers of Goliath, who was a giant, as it were his brothers had. So we come over here to the America’s and what do we see? It seems like many of these giants that are exhumed had six fingers, six toes double rows of teeth. So again we’re looking in my opinion Sid at genetic manipulation from an outside agency which is trying to create something genetically messed with the human genes.
Sid: Okay, and we know these aren’t Native American’s because other things tell me this latest research you found out about the red hair.
LA: Well the red hair is certainly anomalous among Native Americans in fact.
Sid: No I haven’t seen too many red headed Native Americans.
LA: That’s the point, they’re not and this goes back to the whole Darwinian Theory that at the end of the Ice Age they came over the Bering Strait and settled North America, South America, and you know Central America all that. Well all of a sudden you get this race of red hair giants also found in the Ohio Valley but also found down in the Paracas, Peru where we were. And we took a hair sample from this mommy which was at least 2000 years old analyzed with a machine; a very sophisticated scientific machine which is called Raman spectroscopy. What this does is it measures the molecular structure of the particular hair that your putting into this machine and it will show you what it looks like and prints it out on a graph. And we had four samples, and this by the way links in this whole mark of the beast thing that we talked about a little earlier in my opinion, but I’ll get there. The human hair which is our control sample and then we had another human hair which was died and then the third one which was the red hair which we brought back from Paracas, Peru. The fourth hair was a blond hair that was supposedly found on a man who had been abducted by, and I’ll use the word aliens. Of course we don’t believe these are aliens we believe these are demonic hybrids from once again modern Nephilim – fallen angel stuff not aliens. But yet the presence of mind when he awakened to hold on to this very blond looking hair. So we analyzed all four hairs under the Raman spectroscopy found on the graph. The human hair sort of has a very nice little arch and goes from one end to the other; the dyed hair goes right up the top of the graph it just shoots right off the top of the graph. So we see that there is a huge difference between the human hair and the dyed hair. Then we took the red hair and the so called alien hybrid blond hair.
Sid: By the way when was this alleged abduction?
LA: Less than 10 years ago.
Sid: Okay go ahead.
LA: And what we found to out absolute amazement. I’ll show you the graph when I see you in a little bit that the red hair from Paracas which is at least 2000 years old and the blood hair from present day track with one and another all the way up from the bottom of graph to the middle of graph to the top of the graph and then back down. They mirrored each other and we just went “Oh my gosh is there a connection?” And again it’s inconclusive but it lends credibility to the paradigm of which I’m working under that the fallen angels were genetically tampering with the human genome 1000′s of years ago and are back doing the same thing today. And here’s the rub we talked about the mark of the beast. The mark of the beast has four characteristics, or four criteria, you take it… you can’t buy sell or trade without taking the mark. The second one anyone who takes this mark winds up in the lake of fire; so we see once again the finality of God’s judgment over anyone who takes the mark. Which then begs the question “Why the severity of the judgment?” The third one is “Anyone who takes the mark will seek death in those days and not die.” Is it because this mark somehow genetically changes us so our life…
LA: So our life increases let’s say between 500 and 9 years; in other words 900 years. The body would repair itself so that if you got cancer you wouldn’t die your body would just repair itself. So all this self-longevity would happen; and it talks about men and woman seeking death in those days and not being able to find it. And of course the fourth criteria is anyone who takes this mark grievous sores appear on the body. So looking at all of that I believe because the judgment is exactly the same judgment no grace or mercy that we see any time in scripture that the Nephilim are present. From Genesis to Sodom and Gomorrah to the conquest of Canaan and the mandate is always the same. And it’s the same exact mandate in the book of revelation. You take the mark you wind up in the lake of fire and there is a reason for it Sid and it links back into what happened in Genesis 6 is because if you take that mark you then are genetically altered and you become a modern Nephilim.
LA: A modern day Nephilim and the judgment is the same.
Sid: Tell me, alright I’m going to take you back to these mounds and the skeletal remains people that have been almost 10ft tall; these giant 6 fingers 6 toes. But you’ve also found that some of them wore copper ornaments. Is that possible? I mean copper was not being used by Native American’s back then I don’t understand this.
LA: And this is what makes it very interesting, we also know from archeological digs done up in Lake Michigan where some of the largest purest copper in the world is found. We know that tons and tons and tons of this metal was removed from this area; I mean that’s a historic fact where did it go? And we also know that Native Americans for the most part did work in copper, and so some of these graves which are exhumed in these mounds you will see large, very large men, very robust men well over 10 feet tall. And they have copper ornaments head dresses, necklaces, copper armor and it’s amazing; now you say “Where’s the evidence?” And this goes back to our good friends at the Smithsonian who come take the objects crate them up and they’re never seen again. And again what we talked about this earlier but I believe it’s deliberate because this is a monkey wrench in the whole Darwinian Beringian, the whole Cambridge theory. Which man somehow migrated from Asia at the end of the last Ice Age and crossed over into America. This just completely blows it out of the water.
Sid: So it’s a total monkey wrench in evolution and Darwinism.
LA: I believe it is.
Sid: Now if Darwinism and evolution is disproved all the work that’s been done on these, all of the museums are a total waste.
LA: Look they are and remember Darwinism doesn’t embrace the supernatural like you and I do we are both frank supernaturalists and we believer in the supernatural and this is the paradigm in which we both work. This is the essence of what I’m attempting to prove that there are supernatural factors; there are components to all of this and this is what Darwinism refuses to acknowledge on any level because all of this just evolved. And if we can show that there is a supernatural component to this outside agencies are interfacing with the human genome, that’s huge.
Sid: Were out of time right now; but you do brilliant documentation, the old news clippings, the photographs of these hybrid giants all of your research in your brand new book “On the Trail of the Nephilim” puts the whole end times scenario together…
Sid: I love it when God decides to pour His Spirit out and this is almost a little down payment of about what’s about ready to happen on planet earth because God is going to have mercy on planet earth before the Messiah returns. There is going to be the greatest harvest the world has ever seen, and I have a couple here Tim and Katie Mather. They are from Portal, Georgia, they are spokes people for Mega Shift Ministries. I believe that for new wine, according to the New Covenant, and according to the words of Yeshua, Jesus the Messiah you need a new wineskin, and the current wineskin God will continue to use but there is going to be such an outpouring of God’s Spirit we need a new wineskin for a new outpouring of God’s Spirit. And Mega Shift is right in line with what the Spirit of God is saying to believers all over the world, because the average congregation will not be able to handle a thousand new babies that come pouring in. You know Tim and Katie on yesterday’s broadcast I raised an issue that I’m very concerned about. I’ve been a believer now in the Messiah for 30 years. As a believer in the Messiah I have had such a hunger for God I used to… if there were 8 meetings a week I would go to 8 meetings a week. I mean I could not get enough of meetings where they’re either teaching the Word, of worshiping, or church services, or anything. But in these meetings the Body was equipped to be spectators to be fed; and then when we didn’t get fed we began to grumble at the pastor, then the pastor he would go into panic and think “I’m going to resign, I’m not going to be a pastor anymore.” And it’s a whole viscous cycle and circle but there’s a whole generation of us that have been trained to sit and be fed and there’s something wrong with this picture. So when you have this new system the open church, the home church, and you have a congregation maybe you like those words but you have a group of people that have been programed and I guess that’s the proper word, to be passive, to just have their mouth open to receive but not to speak out anything because in the current system if it’s a large congregation you can’t do it even if you want to do it. So what do you do with this group of people? How do you get them from being passive to change their fossilized thinking?
Tim: When we get in contact with a group or we form a new house church what we do first is we don’t do anything remotely religious. That is we get together and we eat. In Luke 10 when they sent out the 72 what they told them to do and they used the word twice in that section. When they sent out the 72 they said “When you enter into the home eat and then later on they repeated it, eat.
Sid: Well, it actually makes a lot of sense because they’re a bunch of Jewish people and we Jewish people like to eat.
Tim: Well, I’m a Gentile and I like to eat as well so…
Sid: So it must be a human problem.
Tim: Well evidently I’ve been adopted in, I think that’s probably the case and so..
Sid: Wait, no no I have to figure this out. Now tell me you see what happened in the year 70 AD the temple was destroyed and all of the genealogical records were destroyed you may or may not be aware of that. So today there is only one positive way to know whether someone is physically Jewish and that is do you like Chinese Food? That is the only… I’m just teasing Mispochah don’t write me, don’t call your congressman. Okay go ahead.
Katie: I think what we’re finding in the home church for those who are finding their place in that family that it’s creating relationship and eating is basically what families do together.
Tim: Your right.
Katie: And we’re building relationship as we’re eating something about it just reduces the amount of institution in us, and causes us or enables us to create relationship.
Tim: It’s based on… Jesus was asked “What’s the greatest commandment? And He said “Love the Lord Your God with all your heart soul, mind and strength and your neighbor as yourself.” All the law and the prophets are gathered up in those two things. And I think that a definition of Christianity to pursue God and create relationship with Him and pursue relationship with one another. The thing is the institutional church is very vertical for 2 hours on Sunday morning, or 4 hours, or an hour, or whatever the case you’re looking at the back of someone’s head. Whereas in a house church everybody’s sitting around on a couches or on the floor and you actually have to interact and develop that horizontal relationship one with another. And Christian people we have discovered that Christian people are very lax in that area in the ability to create relationship. And so that’s what we do for the first part we just create relationship and out of that grows the ability for ministry.
Sid: But someone that has never opened their mouth in church never ever, ever it’s scary, you’ve been programed that only the professionals can do it. How can you change your mindset? I like the idea of the eating and friendly and becoming a family a Mispochah but how do you get them to open their mouth the first time even?
Tim: Because people will open their mouth when they’re talking about their life around the table. And so we wean them off of sitting and being a spectator, we wean off that just be talking, talking about everyday things, and then conversations began to move towards spiritual things. After a while we find even the most shy people and everyone in between but even the most shy people who will in my living room, or in their living room be able to say “Listen may I just pray for you I really feel like I should pray.” And it becomes very powerful, even the young ones because as we were talking before even the young kids. When we were first coming out we had a young fellow named Jacob Kent, and at that time he was about 12 or 13 years old. Whenever I needed word from the Lord I was just “Lord You’ve got to tell me something.” I had a lot of prophetic people around me powerful, I knew a lot of powerful prophets, but in this one house group Jake was there and I went to Jake and I said “Do you have a word from the Lord for me?” And he’s 12 he doesn’t have an agenda for me, he doesn’t see me as the high and mighty pastor anymore it’s just me and he one day gave me the best word I ever got. He said “Tim I think the Lord saying that He loves you,” and at that moment it just broke me but he minister it and it was powerful prophetic ministry that he gave. And everybody, everybody is able to do that.
Sid: You know a thought is coming to me, I went to a congregation for a number of years that was a congregation of looking at the other person’s back of their head like most congregations and a few of the people just decided “I want to do something.” So when we found out that Jewish people were really open to the gospel in the former Soviet Union. These people that did nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing year after year, after year after year in their local church went out there. Today they’re apostles they started so many congregations. The truth of the matter is, the average American Christian that has been in a church for a few years knows enough to be an apostle in another country. And the tragedy is a few, a few, went out and did it. They all could have done it.
Tim: Right, right.
Katie: Right I think the illusion in the church is that to spread the gospel and do the work of ministry is difficult and it’s not it’s very easy even Jesus went out and the disciples after He equipped them. He didn’t equip them with very much because His philosophy Jesus, He did it and then He taught them. So He did it by demonstration He just sent them out and then they came back and shared what they were learning as they were going along. That’s really our philosophy of teaching is teaching people to do it as they’re learning.
Tim: The structure that the tensions in the structure between what we’re talking about and the house church and the institutional church. The tension between the two is the pastor says mobilize, mobilize I used to say “What’s a matter with you people why don’t you go out and do something I’ve been teaching you for years you’ve got enough stuff you’ve got a PhD in this. Why don’t you go and do?” But the problem is the structure is that it’s restrictive it’s controlling, it is subtle people, don’t see it that way but if you have a call from God you basically have three avenues. You can be a pastor, you can be an evangelist or you can be a missionary, and there are three little boxes and if you don’t fit in those boxes then you don’t have any place to go maybe you can be an usher.
Sid: You know the sad thing? I have seen so many people that are pastors because that’s the only opening for them because they have such a heart to serve God but they really don’t have the heart, the gifting to be the pastor they have gifting in other areas but there is no other doors open.
Tim: And the opposite is also true, I pastured for 20 years without the gift of pastor. I was an administrator, I did the things that my basic gifting is in the area of the prophetic and in those kinds of areas. I pastured and so I gathered pastoral people around me from the congregation and learned how to do that even in the institutional church.
Sid: Many pastors are good teachers, or good administrators, but very few want to get down with the sheep and really and truly take care of their wounds.
Katie: And what I see to is a tragedy is the limitation of those who have the teaching gifts, the apostolic gifts who are limited to one fellowship and what they have to share needs to be shared to many churches, many home fellowships rather than to be limited to just one fellowship.
Sid: My guest is Karen Wheaton and before we went on the air I was talking to Karen I’ve never met her in person, but I’ve seen her on TBN and other television shows frequently so I feel like I know her a little bit. But I wanted to find out more and I found out that she was a featured singer on Jim Bakker’s PTL Praise the Lord Show. And at 17 she actually went to Bible School there, then she ministered with Thurlow Spurr; she was with Jimmy Swaggart, she’s been a regular for years on TBN. She was married and had a wonderful marriage, then the things it’s impossible it happens to someone that has a praying mother and the generations of praying mothers. Her husband betrayed her and had an affair with her best friend. Karen how does someone handle the problems that went on with Jim Bakker and PTL, the problems that went on with Jimmy Swaggart; these are people that I’m sure you got to know; then the problems in your personal life. A lot of people would just throw in the towel; how did you handle that?
Karen: Oh the blood of Jesus that washes away all sins for all of us. You know Sid His precious word is everything that we need to stand on and build our lives on. I’m thankful that as a young girl I was raised in a Christian home, and I was raised among a group of people in our church that were real in God. I saw as a young girl there was a real God, and that His presence would come when we would pray and seek Him. And so as a child I fell in love with Jesus. I fell in love with His presence and His Word and I saw His Word work as a young girl. That gave me the foundation I needed when the winds and the storms of life would hit in later years. It was the one thing that I could always go back to to stand on that even though sometimes we’re disappointed in people we can all say “Lord You give us the strength, You were the One and the only One that never changes.”
Sid: Now, I’m hearing what you’re saying but what you went through was so devastating many people even knowing what you just said with your mouth would have thrown in the towel; why didn’t you?
Karen: I was walking on the Word that God was giving me and the first Word that God gave me in going through that trial in a personal level was that I was to just forgive. And in that trial when the fiery trial and the pain of betrayal and the pain of just the marital stress I was depending on His Word and He taught me that journey of forgiveness. And I found that it was a decision that we make and that when we make a decision to obey the Word of God He will give us the grace that we need to do what He’s telling us to do.
Sid: But there was also one moment in which you were at a ministry and TD Jakes was there and he walked by you and just a couple words from God that God used him to deliver really at the right time, the right place tell me about that.
Karen: Well, I was singing at a conference one time at Rod Parsley’s and TD Jakes happened to be there to preach. He walked over to me in the middle of that fire and no one in the building really knew what I was going through that night and he walks over to me and with a word from the Lord he just says to me “Enough is enough.” And it was as though the Holy Spirit was just telling me there comes a time when the Lord Himself can say to you “It’s over, it’s enough.” When God says that it comes with a release in your spirit. And you know I remember, I remember going through the pain of the infidelity, and I remember you go through such wide emotions and I was experiencing at times just the anger and the hatred and you want a place to put that anger and I learned that people are not our enemies. Sometimes I want to put our anger on a person that has hurt us or betrayed us or people but people are not our enemy. We have a real enemy he comes to steal, kill and destroy. He is the devil, there is a real God and there’s a real devil. One time in the deepest part of my pain I remember being on the floor in my bedroom and I said to God “God, give me vengeance on the enemy; give me vengeance on the devil that did this to me and here’s the way I want it.” I said “God give me a song of healing and deliverance and let me sing that song about people that I’ve ever dreamed possible; and for my vengeance on the enemy God I pray You will send me people that are hurting, send me woman that are hurting like I am hurting and men that have known the pain that I’ve known. And let me take the healing You’re pouring into me and let me pour it into them and doing so let me make Satan regret the day he ever touched my heart.” That’s the way we can get vengeance on the enemy is by letting God heal us so completely the place of our pain that becomes the source of healing for many.
Sid: I have to believe that although God didn’t do this to you because you went through this you have compassion like you would have never had before for others.
Karen: It’s true Sid, and having been raised in a wonderful Christian home I had never known the depth of pain like that. I can tell you that when I’m praying for a woman who walks up to me and says “My marriage is falling apart, I’ve just found out my husband has been unfaithful, it is an unspeakable pain that only Jesus can heal, but having been through it on the other side I can tell you Sid He can heal that pain and I’m telling you heal it completely.”
Sid: Tell me about the song “I Know a Love.”
Karen: “I Know a Love” was written by a lady that was actually going through the pain of betrayal of an unfaithful spouse. It is the message of hope, it says in one place of this song “When the storms come and when these things arise I know one thing, I know that Your Spirit lives within me and I know that there is nothing that my God cannot do; I know a love to build my life on its unshakeable, it’s unmovable, it’s unchangeable and it’s the love of my Father.”
Sid: “I Know a Love” with Karen Wheaton. So many lives are radically changed when they listen to Karen Wheaton’s music.
Sid: I have on the telephone a young man by the name of Shawn Bolz from Foley, Alabama with White Dove Ministries. I got a hold of his book that just literally came off, just came off the press it’s called “Keys to Heaven’s Economy an Angelic Visitation from the Minister of Finance.” When Shawn was as young as 17 he had his first Heavenly encounter and he’s had a number since but this was way beyond anything. Shawn in your book it says that when you had this visitation from the Minister of Finance there was a friend of yours, or a young person in the next room, and he could hear the voice of the conversation; explain that.
Shawn: He couldn’t hear what we were saying but he knew that all the men were out of the house because his mom and sisters were home and I was the guest in the house. And so he was… I was sleeping you know… he was sleeping somewhere else because someone else was sleeping in his room. So he could hear voices talking and he began to get afraid because he realized “Oh my goodness none of the men are home and there’s two men talking in that room.” And he knew because he heard that this guy was going to stay that’s had encounters before he knows an encounter and he just laid there in fear listening but not a bad kind of fear but just going “God you are this real.”
Sid: And for those that have just tuned in would you recap for us what the Minister of Finance had to say.
Shawn: He was talking about the fact that there is resources that God has laid aside in Heaven that He wants to release on earth in this generation now that would bring Jesus’ full reward. So those resources aren’t just finances it’s buildings, it’s positions, it’s favor, it’s all of those things that Jesus would need to get the fullness of his reward in our generation. Those souls that would be won through those resources would be received because of the resources that would be released from his heart. So the minister of Finance was showing me people that were receiving keys from Heaven to unlock great provisions for our lifetime that thousands and millions and billions could come to the Lord.
Sid: Now is it possible for people in this generation to miss this destiny God has for them just as people in previous generations did?
Shawn: I think it’s a complicated question, but just in the sense that I think that Jesus still has an agenda in this generation that it would be hard for us as a generation to miss it but of course there’s the human element can make us miss something. Because He partner’s with us and so we have to cooperate with His agenda for this to happen, but I think He so wants it so more than we do. It’s like in John 17 He prayed “Father I want them to be with me where I am and that they’d see my glory.” It’s like He wanted it more than we did even for what He’s asking in this generation.
Sid: Okay in this visitation in the Minister of Finance pulled out keys a bunch of keys and put it on your chest but what were these keys for?
Shawn: They were everything from cars, planes, boats, buildings, materials everything that you could think of. One of the pictures that… and this kind of goes around about way to answer your question; what I pictured was it was in Solomon’s generation. King Solomon wanted to build the temple with the greatest resources known to man and it was a demonstration that in one generation all the greatest resources that were known to modern day man at the time they were brought together in one place to display glory for God. And I believe that’s about to happen in our generation of everything that we would need, the greatest resources that are on the earth right now are about to be brought into submission to God’s heart so that we can display His glory, so that we display His beauty. You know we’ve been talking the last couple of episodes about television and music and different entertainment mediums that God’s about to use because He wants to use because He wants to have His face displayed. And one of the picture of this was I saw two angels flying with a key and there was a gold key in front of them and they were flying and there was I described one of them of them in the book and they were flying with this key in front of them. And they were following the key because the key was about to be given to somebody to unlock their destiny in a secular position to bring finances and resources in that position so that the world could see the justice of Heaven.
Sid: Now you had another visitation in which you saw, what you referred to as the storehouse in Heaven. I’ve heard little bits and pieces from other people that have been to the storehouse of Heaven but you had quite a tour of that; tell me about it.
Shawn: That’s exactly what I taught I was brought there and it’s one of the favorite experiences that I’ve ever had because it describes so much to me in so few words but sometimes a vision can be worth a thousand sermons. When you see something that’s straight from His heart I saw a room that had no perimeters and had different sections to it. And the first part He brought me to was, He called it His Department of Creative Miracles, and we were walking through the first section of that. There was just rows and rows of body parts and I’m looking at these body parts it looked like manikin legs and manikin arms but they were real, they had flesh to them. And it grossed me out at first because there were like liver and eyeballs and just things lining up and I said “What is this?” And he said “This is provisions for creative miracles that are going to be called forth on the earth.”
Sid: Yeah but wait a second I have interviewed people that have had this but this so infrequent it sounds to me like God wants to speed this thing up.
Shawn: He wants to speed it up. I looked at, I started looking at each of these body parts was tagged and I started looking at their tags they had names of people that God had designed these body parts for that either don’t have them or they lost them at some point. And it had dates that He wanted to give them and so many of the dates are coming up now so many of the dates, there’s an acceleration. And I was seeing that average people could call these things forth it didn’t take a great long term healing ministry.
Sid: Wait wait I’m going to get real practical right now, I had a chronic deterioration of my hip bone over the years and I finally had to have a hip replacement even though I was believing God that He would give me a new one. But somehow I believe even though I have a piece of metal and short of a miracle from God it’s as close to a miracle that you can get from man it’s a wonderful thing. I believe God wants to give me one from Heaven, a real hip so if you were me what would you do?
Shawn: I would begin saying “On earth as it is in Heaven” because in Heaven there’s no weakness in our bodies our bodies are perfect, that’s His original design. He wants us to pray that our bodies would line up with His desire in Heaven which is a wholeness of what He created our bodies to function as. I believe people who have everything from grave problems such as a missing arm or a bad kidney or a bad liver to people that have weight problems as they begin to cry out “On earth as it is in Heaven” God will give us both understanding of what medicine to practice if we need that or else He’ll show us how to strategy our diet if it’s a weight problem or He’ll begin to supernaturally resolve the issues. Because so much of the issues right now in the medical industry are going to take a supernatural revolution on a natural one because there’s fibromyalgia as a condition that is the cause of something else it’s not a condition undo itself. The doctors don’t even understand the fullness of it so there is going to be the need to be supernatural resolution for each of these issues. What’s cool is awesome is…
Sid: And believer’s should be the ones getting this and be the top doctors and scientist.
Shawn: Absolutely I think it’s a combination of many of the people who went into the medical industry had a nurturing heart to see people healed. God is saying “I want to add to you now the ministry of healing.” But it’s not just a gift that comes on our hands and we’re empowered it’s the understanding that Jesus Himself designed us as Christians that we would want to be completely whole, that we would want to be made whole in our whole bodies because we would want to fully function because that was His original design for us.
Sid: Now you cover so much in your book about the storehouse in Heaven but tell me some other areas.
Shawn: One of my other favorite areas was the supernatural faith dimension I stepped into a cloud right after this.
Sid: I want that one.
Shawn: Oh, it’s the best I stepped into a cloud when I was in…
Sid: In fact I want it all but go ahead. (Laughing)
Shawn: The angel that was escorting me who was the foreman of the warehouse wasn’t allowed to go there with me because it was reserved for humans; it was reserved for us. And it was a dimension when I stepped in that anything I would have asked would have been done. And it was this place I could feel the things that were important to God’s heart.
Sid: This is like you’re saying gifts of supernatural faith were in this room.
Shawn: Were in this room and this cloud was about to descend on congregations of people; people who are fellowshipping to be able to ask for anything that we would need or anything that would be resisting us that it would be removed either one of those things. And I saw that there was a place that if we just said “Lord, on earth as it is in Heaven according to your desire” that it would have to be done because of the faith that He’s about to release on a generation. And we’ve seen this in several meetings not in many meetings.
Sid: That was my next question, Shawn give me one example.
Shawn: One example is a good friend of mine name Charlotte Bartow she’s out of the North West, she came with us in a conference in Chicago. I said “Anybody who is dying or has a permanent condition where you’re debilitating and you’ll be like in a wheelchair or it’s a critical need come forward.” And Charlotte has a liver problem where she needs a liver transplant or she’ll die with two years. And the problem is that she is on a waiting list and so Charlotte came on this trip and she was always very weak, loses blood sometimes just at a hard place in life. And we started praying for her and I had everybody who had ever believed that God wanted to use them in healing. I said “You’re not using it yet but you believe this is coming for you come forward and they all came forward a group of people who believe that God wanted to use them healing, some were doctors and nurses and some were just the average person also. No one had every prayed for healing successful before and I said “Now pray on earth as it is in Heaven according to this desire of what He’s provided.” And we did that and as they were praying I didn’t pray at all, as they were praying I looked up and I saw in an open vision a liver coming down towards Charlotte as this woman prayed for her. The woman was praying, she was seeing in her heart, she was seeing what God had already provided for Charlotte that it wasn’t Charlotte’s time to die. She began to say “On earth as it is in Heaven in Charlotte’s body let it come forth.” And she saw it too and we saw it come into Charlotte and Charlotte’s body was totally, totally changed. That was year ago she’s still completely healed. She went back to the doctor like…
Sid: That sure beats a liver transplant.
Shawn: Completely, her doctor was amazed she’s off the transplant list her body is 100%.
Sid: One other area that you saw in the storehouse in Heaven.
Shawn: Well I kind of briefly touched last time was the creative invention section, I didn’t call it that when we were talking on the phone, but there’s a place where there’s inventions that we need to have in our society for the full message of Jesus to come forth. And like in Martin Luther’s day the printing press was released the same time they were going to copy the Bible for the common man. In our day we have the internet but there’s technology inside the internet that we need to have and there’s technologies that God… like a new energy source that God is going to release that is giving Christians right now He’s planting inventions in the hearts of Christians.
Sid: Now did you see this in Heaven?
Shawn: I saw it in Heaven I saw a new energy source I have actually met a couple different people who have been creating energy sources and they’ve come to me and asked me “Am I the one?” It’s been amazing just to hear their whole technology that’s been released to their hearts and I also saw some things in multimedia and internet and holograms and things I can’t describe because I don’t even understand.
Sid: Shawn we’re out of time…
Sid: Getting ready for eternity to invade time; for those that are perhaps tuning in the first time my guest by way of telephone is Renny McLean. Now Renny was born in England his mother is Jewish, father is Jamaican. At a young age at age 7 his mother had visitations from the Lord and was a seer. He couldn’t get away with anything and when his mother said something it happened and that’s the way he was raised. But at the age 7 literally a light came into his room and Jesus appeared and he had a Heavenly visitation. He does not look at things the way most American Christians do, he looks at things from Heaven’s perspective as opposed to earth’s perspective. I have to tell you Renny although I am really enjoying your new book “Eternity Invading Time” I feel that I got to read it and reread it. Now I’m not an ignorant person I’ve been a believer many years; I’m a college graduate not that that means so much. But I mean I shouldn’t have to do it, but I’ve got to read it and read it and then read it again; why is that Renny?
Renny: Because when it comes to the realm of the Spirit the realm of the Spirit has to be perceived. Because it has to be perceived it means it has to be revealed. Because if it’s not revealed it’s not known; and that’s the reason why in fact that we have to read it again and again and again and again. I’m telling you brother Sid we’ve had well known people read that book great theologians that are Spirit filled read that book and their exact words were “To get the fullness of this book you can’t get it in one sitting.” It’s not a bed time story read. I mean it’s not a bed time sit read; I mean no I mean it’s a time if you are…I just heard it Sid; see if we’re seeking God for the next level for that realm of the miraculous where we can tangibly experience it and move in it and manifest it you know you’re going to get answers to questions in that book. Because I mean the answers are there; the answer; the answers are there in that book. And that’s not me the author saying it that’s what well-known who have read the book have said.
Sid: Well, it’s so new that you can’t have a great retail feedback but tell me one well-known person what he said about the book.
Renny: Okay one well-known person who has said something about the book; Okay Dr. T.L. Lowery.
Sid: Well, many of us are familiar with him he has quite a reputation.
Renny: Yes, he read my book; I bumped into him at a book convention in Denver and we bumped into each other and needless to say I said “Lord if he’s supposed to have this book put him in my path.” And the Lord put him in my path and I said “Dr. Lowery we have a mutual friend Marcus & Joanie Lamb.” He said “Well, praise the Lord” here’s the book and I promise you this will change your life. He read that book three times in one day and 24 hours he called my office requesting several more of those books it so changed his life and it’s still changing his life today.
Sid: Now I want to ask you a few questions just because many of our listeners are not familiar with you. I am in awe of the various creative miracles that occur so often in your ministry.
Sid: Tell me about some creative miracles involving eyes.
Renny: Okay, oh oh beautiful. Okay years ago and I mean and I’m saying it’s relatively new I guess it’s relative it’s not that far because all time is relative. Some years ago I was in Washington preaching and I remember one day I was there for three nights it was a three night event and the glory of the Lord was in the meeting each night. There seemed to be overwhelming sense of God’s presence and glory. And I feel that glory coming on us now even as we speak you know don’t be surprised if while you’re hearing this broadcast you’re just being healed. And it was an awesome presence of God in the meeting; and I’ll never forget that the glory was manifesting and I think people was worshiping because we teach this principal about the glory of God for the miraculous. We teach this principal with great depth this is what we say to people. God inhales our worship; He inhales it and He exhales the glory. What God exhales is based on what He inhaled. If our worship doesn’t ascend into the nostrils of God there is no manifestation in the glory. So the question is how much of the glory do we really want; so we worship…
Sid: So the people… I’ve got to put a God commercial in right now Renny. So the people who go to meetings and say “I’m waiting for the superstar to speak you’re taking too long with the worship” have missed what’s going on.
Renny: Totally they’ve missed it; they’ve missed it because you got to create the atmosphere for the worship for the miracles to manifest. The tangibility of the miracles is based on the atmosphere.
Sid: I love the statement that you made Renny I’ve got to repeat it; “God inhales our worship and exhales His glory.”
Renny: Yes He does; oh yes. See the problem is in the church that we either don’t worship long enough or if we do we don’t have a sense; we don’t have a sense; we don’t have a sense of what we’re doing. Because we’ve often at times worship as if it’s the thing to do and we don’t realize we’re creating the environment that’s on; sorry we’re creating Heaven’s environment in the earth’s realm.
Sid: Let me ask you a question that I’ve been thinking about actually ever since I’ve been reading your book where to talk about the new song which most Christians have never even heard of. But I was thinking about a signs and wonders ministry that most people think of when they hear signs and wonders and that’s Benny Hinn.
Sid: And of course I know Benny but also knew Katherine Kuhlman and both of them understood the dimension that you’re talking about.
Renny: Oh my Lord.
Sid: If you take the worship out of a Benny Hinn meeting or previously a Katherine Kuhlman meeting I don’t think you’d have the same miracles.
Renny: Well, the truth is you wouldn’t have miracles at all because the secret of it if you remove a fish from water it dies; life corresponds with environment. Well when you remove worship from the church there’s no correspondence to Heaven. So His kingdom isn’t coming and it’s not being done on earth as it is in Heaven because in Heaven worships going on. And in Heaven everything is healed there’s nothing in Heaven that incomplete in fact if we realize it and looked at it in the realm of the Spirit that’s when it means if we realize what the worship the miraculous would manifest but we stop at the point of breakthrough you know. We either worship to fill in a place or to fill in a spot in the service but we don’t realize that we’re filling in blanks and the atmosphere for the supernatural to manifest. We’re charging the atmosphere with our worship and I’ll tell you Sid why it’s so important when I say this because at times we go to services and we look for the musicians to carry the worship. But people don’t realize this the original sound of the glory is on your voice, the voiceprint of God is in our voice when we’re worshiping God and God in Spirit and in Truth. That means when you open your mouth to worship God knows who’s worshiping in the church; He knows who… that’s real scary. God knows who’s worshiping in other words you can’t hide in the service; everybody’s voiceprint is different; just how your thumbprint is different. If we realize our voiceprint in the realm of the Spirit is attached to a miracle that means the miracle is in our mouth as we worship God the miracles would start to break forth. The problem is we wanting somebody else’s worship to bring us our side to Heaven.
Sid: But what if someone goes to a good Spirit filled church but their really… worship isn’t the highlight and they see it but they decide they’re going to worship God with all their worth even if the rest of the congregation isn’t. What will happen to that person?
Renny: Worship is contagious; the secret of it is it takes one person sometimes to start it and as you start the bull rolling other people will step in the flow and step in the river of God. The secret of it is you’ve got to see yourself at that moment in time as the person that God anointed with the Spirit of worship to bring in the glory in the church. Then as you start to worship others will start to step in.
Sid: You know another thing that I was just talking about myself is many times the words in the songs are unbelief; they sound wonderful but there plain unbelief and I don’t want to proclaim that and so what I’ll do is I’ll just sing in unknown tongues.
Renny: Oh, that’s wonderful I do that all the time (Laughing) oh that’s good, that’s the secret because what people do not realize is that what you are confessing is what you are decreeing.
Sid: I refuse to proclaim with my lips some of the words of some of the popular songs.
Renny: Oh sure I totally agree with you because I certainly don’t do it; in fact many times when songs are sung that do not match what Heaven’s says about us many of the times I just sing in the Spirit. I just sing in the Spirit because I’m not going to attach that word to my spirit because I’m aware that want I’m saying what we’re saying is what we’re sowing and what we’re sowing is what we’re going to reap.
Sid: Renny, your new book “Eternity Invading Time.”
Renny: Yes sir.
Sid: It’s a now book; if you want to understand what is going on in the earth from Heaven’s perspective, and I have to believe a lot of what if not all of this book came really from the Spirit of God.
Renny: Oh, let me tell you sometime for years God had dealt with me on it and really and truly because it came from the throne of God; it came from the throne of God. And I mean every chapter in that book was birth out of the visitation of God that we had had in one of our meetings. So everything that you see that’s in print in that book is actually in the at… came out of the atmosphere of God’s glory with great signs and wonders followed. It came out of a miracle atmosphere. That’s why people who read that book they don’t just receive miracles and experience miracles, but they learn how to move in miracles.
Sid: Well, I have to tell you that the title “Eternity” that’s God’s realm.
Sid: “Invading Time” that’s the realm we’re in it’s as if you state in your book “Eternity is drawing closer to earth.”
Renny: Yes it is oh my goodness yes because time is shortening; time is shortening Yeshua is coming and time is shortening. That simply implies that the time that we have left on the earth… everything that is prophesied has to take place in this time frame.
Sid: Whoops we’re out of time oh unfortunately we’re in that earth realm right now; one day we we’ll be in eternity realm even on the radio.
Sid: Now my guest is a Jewish believer his name is David Herzog and he is saying by faith what I am saying by faith but it is faith based on the written word of God, and faith on what the Spirit of God is telling us. David do you see a major revival of Jewish people taking place in Israel?
David: Yes, right now I believe that we’re on the verge of something fresh and new that’s just starting in its infancy to touch people in Israel in a power powerful way I have not seen it in many years.
Sid: And you know there’s a scripture that says “The Word of the Lord will go forth from Zion.” Now it’s not without precedence the first move started in Israel; why shouldn’t the greatest move of God of God’s Spirit in history before this whole thing is wrapped up start in Israel?
David: Well yeah because the Bible does say you know the disciples “When will all these things happen, when will the end come?” And Yeshua said it clearly He said “Not until Israel says ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’” So even if you win every nation of the earth to God but we don’t focus on Israel, He’s still not returning.
Sid: So tell me this “Why are there people that are actually moving in the power of God and either they’re in replacement theology meaning the church has replaced Israel or they say well I see a place for Israel but I don’t see any special emphasis.” I don’t understand why they’re getting manifestations of healings.
David: Yes, it’s hard it’s a hard thing to understand; I think that it’s just a lack of revelation; a lot of time people don’t have an understanding or a revelation. I’ve known a pastor for many years and he was replacement theology and we’re still friends but he had appreciated our ministry and finally he said to me “Brother, man I see the blessing, the favor, the miracles; how is this happening?” And I told him, “You know what, just come with me to Israel I don’t want to argue with you just come on a trip.” He came on a trip and within about 48 hours he understood the revelation of God touched him and now he’s being blessed.
Sid: Well, here’s what I believe the ones that are moving in the power of God you see “The gifts and calling of God are without repentance.” You stand in His Name by faith you’ll see the miraculous. What I foresee about ready to happen and you foresee is way beyond a headache; I literally see someone without a leg getting their leg back. Has God shown these things to you?
David: That amazing you’re saying that because I was just thinking about one story. In France we had a big big campaign, glory meeting, miracle meeting. Two people in wheelchairs and instantly walked and they were just healed without anybody laying hands on them. But a third man he left the meeting early he was paralyzed he left with his wife and they went into the car drove to the hotel about midnight. The paralyzed man the husband stayed in the car and while she was getting the keys in the hotel a thief came and stole the car with him in it. Not very fun to steal a car with the owner in it. And the seat-belt well it wrapped around…
Sid: Sounds like a bad movie but go ahead.
David: Yeah, and the thief tried to kick the paralyzed man out the door and he managed to kick him out while the car was moving and the seat-belt wrapped around his leg or something had happened and literally cut off his leg. So he’s paralyzed and now he’s missing a leg; he’s laying on the cement on the highway or the roadway and the ambulance come and take him to the doctor. They grafted the leg back together but you know as well as I do even if you have a good leg and that happens it’s ripped off like that it’s not a good chance you’re going to walk. So they grafted it back; I didn’t know that happened and that night I prayed for handkerchiefs I said “Some of you have friends or family that are not here; look at these miracles and pray for these handkerchiefs send them to people that are sick.” And one lady brought it to the man in the hospital the next day or so and laid it on his leg and began praying and the power of God came on his legs. Just got out of surgery and they had tried to graft it back; electricity came all over his legs. He began wiggling his toes and his feet and he was paralyzed for one and now he had just gotten his leg put back together after being cut off. That’s a big miracle; within 5 days he walked out of the hospital; he’s still healed today he’s no longer paralyzed.
Sid: Hmm, David explain to our people when the glory shows up; I mean have you ever experienced the glory where it’s almost like a tangible cloud that you can touch and you can even see?
David: Yes we’ve even had that happen; I was in a meeting one time in Ashland, Virginia preaching when Ruth Heflin was there. The cloud of glory was so thick. I went outside towards the end of the meeting I walked outside through the back door because I was on the stage; when I looked in you couldn’t see the people there was a literal physical cloud. Others started walking outside as well to look at it and they couldn’t believe it and it was literally from the outside looking in it was a cloud you couldn’t see the people; it was amazing.
Sid: Explain to me, what is the difference between ministering the anointing of God and the glory of God?
David: Oh, I love that question, yeah big difference; you could be ministering under the anointing of God that God gave you. You know you’re laying hands on the sick and let’s say there’s 1,000 people and you’re starting to lay hands and 3 or 4 people get healed. But you know it’s going to take you a long time to touch everybody, but when the glory of God comes in the building it’s like Acts Chapter 4 “It says Lord stretch out Your hands to heal.” And that’s when Peter’s shadow began healing the sick, so when the glory comes in many times you don’t have to go and pray personally for each person there’s like a mass healing thing that happens because His hand is being stretched out. And that’s where I’ve see the most creative miracles, the most amount of miracles in a 5 minute period I could see several hundred miracles as opposed to me one and one trying to pray for each one and find out what happened. So the glory is an accelerator whatever you can do in the anointing you can do it way faster in the glory realm
Sid: Well, I want to explain something that’s going on in my ministry and maybe you can give me some insight. When I first started I would get words of knowledge like say a back and I didn’t know what to do with it I just hear that just out of the blue and that’s how I began to recognize “Oh, that’s coming from God, that’s not coming from me.” So I would say “Everyone with a back problem come forward” and they would come forward and I would lay hands on them and everyone would be healed.
Sid: Then I began to see that if I would just speak that word out people didn’t have to come forward; they could get healed in there seat and so I did that. Then I began to see that once one person was healed of anything; anyone could be healed of anything.
Sid: In other words people are waiting for me to say a specific word of their condition to trigger their faith to receive; but what I try to tell people is the minute I have one word, my first word the glory is there and grab what you need.
Sid: Now is this what you’re experiencing?
David: Yeah, exactly what happens is you’ll get one or two words or whatever to start but then it triggers a reaction when people realize wait God’s here and they on their own just start receiving their miracles while the glory is there. Many times it happens that people just drive by the church building and get their miracle and their not even saved. So the glory of God is not just limited like you said to you giving a word; sometimes that just encourages their faith to get it started for them to believe. And the Bible says “My sheep hear My voice,” so they also can hear God’s voice for the healing and the miracles while the glory is happening. And many many times there’s things that we never prayed for. I was in Versailles, France on the day the Tsunami hit. A lady just jumped out of her wheelchair; I never called out paralyzed and the glory was so thick she just full of faith and knowing the presence was there just got up and jumped into that glory and she was instantly healed.
Sid: Now you actually proclaimed that people could be transported in the Spirit; explain that.
David: Hmm, this is going to be fun. Yeah, in fact let me give you a quick testimony about 2 or 3 weeks ago I was driving to Belgium from Paris and my car broke down about 7:30 the meeting starts at 7:00 I still had 3 more hours to drive. So I called the pastor and said “I’m not going to make it I’ll be there about 10.” As I got in the car the Holy Spirit began to tell me about transportation; He said “That which you have been preaching and you’ve seen before I’m going to do it again.” And I thought is this just me or the Lord, even though we’re in this realm we’ll still sometimes wonder. And as I’m driving and worshiping the Lord I was there within 45 minutes I saw the exit to the place that I needed to be in Belgium and I was there within 45 minutes. So that’s one example and when I showed up the church was shocked; the pastor was shocked because they had just finished the worship and I was able to preach. So I was there way ahead of time; you can be transported on the earth; you can also be transported to heaven; third heaven.
Sid: Now I was talking specifically about French Guiana where you made a declaration that there would be heavenly visitations; what happened?
David: Yeah, we were doing a meeting in the… it looked like a jungle area. That night the pastor and I were talking about how great with God was moving in the meeting and wasn’t that great to see the people being touched. And as we were talking that night we had an angelic visitation; we both were visit by angels to about 4:00 in the morning, which at that point I had never had that happen with another person. Then the next day flew over to the capital city; shared the experience of what God had done and two people that we know for sure; there were others. But especially one was the pastor’s daughter she’d just got knocked out by the power of God on her own no one touching her. And they carried her home to her friend’s house she was about 16; her friend was also knocked out like in a trance kinda state where they couldn’t wake her up. And the mother of the friend began listening to the pastor’s daughter talking in the trance like state and saying “I don’t want to come back, I don’t want to come back.” When she came back to finally she explained about how she’d been to Heaven and saw Jesus, Yeshua, and saw her best friend. The mom said that “If this is true we’re going to try to wake up your best friend out of this trance and see if this stories real.” She had just said she had saw Yeshua and her best friend in Heaven. Woke up the other friend finally out of the trance and the girl said “Mom I was just in Heaven with her.” And the mom said “Well, what did you talk about she said you had a conversation together in Heaven.” It was exact same conversation, exact same experience that they both shared. So yeah, these things are real; there is Heaven and you can visit it. We had it happen recently while in Israel where half our tour group actually were taken to the third Heaven right at Bethel the place where it all happened.
Sid: Well, let me ask you something if on say I turn you loose tomorrow to preach on this subject of the glory and you also preach a little bit on Friday’s broadcast what do you believe could happen to people as God’s Glory is released that are just listening to us?
David: Yeah, I believe that as they listen and as they’re being touched and open first of all there will be a lot of miracles, healings, creative miracles, maybe signs and wonders anything can happen. There can be people that have angelic visitation.
Sid: Okay, consider yourself challenged Mishpochah.
Sid: I wish you could hear my conversation with my guest before I go on the air it’s so good I say “Stop, we’ve got to say that on the air.” Because my guest this week is Dr. Ray Strand; a Medical Doctor that has for the last what was it 7 years Ray?
Ray: Eight or nine years.
Sid: Eight or nine years specialized in nutrition which most MD’s have how much training in medical school?
Ray: Oh, about 10 minutes.
Sid: (Laughing) Ten minutes! How long does the average big city physician spend with his patient? What’s the average?
Ray: About 8 minutes.
Sid: Eight minutes; there’s something wrong with this picture. Let me tell you what you said and I quoted this earlier in the week “That we can’t rely on doctors, we must do our homework; we must become proactive; we can’t be like I used to be like someone that buries his head in the sand and whatever that doctor says is fine.” Because as you were talking earlier this week about the Federal Drug Administration it’s not quite as pure as it used to be because they rely on money from drug companies to do the testing. Is that correct?
Ray: Well not only that, yeah you’re correct on that Sid, on half of the budget the FDA comes from the pharmaceutical industry that they’re supposed to be policing. And the sad thing is that the FDA is under a lot of pressure at the present time by Congress and obviously if you’re paying the bill to FDA you want your drugs approved quicker and more frequently.
Sid: And not only that, every time I turn on the television I see an advertisement. I’ve never see this before. It’s almost epidemic; another advertisement pushing a drug.
Ray: Well isn’t that amazing that they’re advertising prescription drugs, the only way that you can get it is from your doctor. And my first gut reaction when I saw that was “Why are they doing that?” Well, the study show that Sid that when that patient comes in and asks for that specific drug 90% of the time he walks out with that script in his hands. And the pharmaceutical industry knows that and so that’s the pressure that they put on doctors.
Sid: So you doctors are dependent on the pharmaceutical industry to test the drug? You are dependent on them to make you knowledgeable of it. And you’re now going to be dependent on it for them selling it for you.
Ray: Well, that’s correct there’s a lot of pressure when someone comes in and say “I want this particular pill or that one” and we’re willing to oblige them. And even though doctors like to take a high road and say “We should look at third party information and all of this medical information.” The reality is they don’t spend all of this money by the pharmaceutical industry sending in all of these drug reps into our office if they weren’t effective.
Sid: I have to ask you a question. Is there any as an MD that is a Christian; I’ve always been curious about this. “Is there any ulterior motive for a particular doctor to prescribe a specific drug?” Do they get any benefit that you’re aware of?
Ray: Sid, I know I get asked that question a lot and the answer to that is a simple, “No.”
Sid: Good. (Laughing)
Ray: Other than maybe a free lunch or something you know that they’re talking…
Sid: But someone’s life is dependent on giving the right medicine.
Ray: Well doctors aren’t prescribing basically the wrong medicine; we just have so many choices now. I mean you look at the blood pressure medication we probably have 100 different medications we could prescribe.
Sid: Well speaking of blood pressure, speaking of back problems, and different pain in the body. I’ll tell you one of my frustrations. I know that God is a healer; I know that He can heal anything. When I pray for people and when the people that are grossly overweight that have back problems God does a miracle, He’s so gracious, He heals them. But then that problem comes back because of the cause of the back problem was that they were grossly overweight. Or I pray for someone with high blood pressure and God causes a miracle to happen but then in your opinion why does that high blood pressure come back?
Ray: Well people do not know there’s physical and biological laws that occur in the way that we treat our body and how we try to take care of this temple of the Holy Spirit. And what is happening is that people abuse themselves. Maybe knowingly and unknowingly and the Christians are probably worse than any group out there. And so what happens is everybody can have a healing from the Lord or a miracle. And then they go back to these old abusive lifestyles and people… what is it? Well, we don’t exercise, we don’t move that body, we get into a carbohydrate addiction, we’re stuck on this high glycemic carbohydrates. But you know Sid there are good fats, there are good proteins, and there are good carbs. People simple need to know what they are and they need to eat them because our body needs them, that’ s the way God created them.
Sid: Now you say in your book that heart problems are not caused by high cholesterol, but that’s the main number that an MD looks at and if your number isn’t right they give you a drug. What do you mean by that statement?
Ray: Well what we are finding out, and this is something I’ve known and have been teaching and talking about for the last 9 years. Heart is not a disease of cholesterol it’s an inflammatory disease. It’s caused by low grade inflammation of that artery. And the healing that’s supposed to be trying to occur from the immune system actually gets carried away and this inflammation continues. So over half of the people that actually have heart attacks Sid have normal cholesterol levels and so what happens is that people are convinced that it’s just too much cholesterol in our bloodstream that’s building up and that’s what the pharmaceutical industry wants you to believe. But as you keep lowering and lowering cholesterol it’s not the answer. In fact LDL, you know the bad cholesterol the bad cholesterol everybody talks about?
Ray: It is not bad as native cholesterol it only becomes bad once it becomes changed or modified by these excessive what we call free radicals or that charged oxygen molecule. And then it can cause this inflammation. So yeah…
Sid: So, what good is the medication based on what you’ve just told me?
Ray: Well I don’t believe it’s really all that important if people knew that they are doing. Because if you really understand you know there are several different causes of inflammation. But now that we’re hearing more about inflammation is that what they’re finding out is that the drugs like Lipitor or Zocor that lower cholesterol they also decrease inflammation in that artery. So the pharmaceutical industry now is starting to let this information out so you’re going to read a lot about inflammation, not only as a cause of heart disease but Alzheimer dementia, cancer, of arthritis of all of this. And so we are going to hear more and more…
Sid: I mean we’re hearing so much about Alzheimer’s right now.
Sid: You’re saying that this is one of the major causes? I’ve never heard this before.
Ray: Oh yes.
Sid: I thought they said that they didn’t even know the cause of Alzheimer’s.
Ray: They know the cause, they just don’t know how to prevent it or what to do.
Sid: But your book says they you know preventive for Alzheimer’s.
Ray: Oh yes.
Sid: I mean, you’re saying so casually so many people are suffering from this or going to suffer from this.
Ray: Well the problem is it’s like in medicine what happens Sid is that doctors diagnose much of our disease at the very end stage. For example, when we just heard just various people like Michael J. Fox who has Parkinson’s disease. You know that he knows that 80% of the brain cells were already gone by the time we diagnosed it. Well, the same thing happened when President Reagan you know when he was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s which we first diagnosed him 80% of the brain cells involved were already damaged.
Sid: So all the medicine in the world short of a miracle of God couldn’t have helped him.
Ray: Right. So what happens is we have to prevent these diseases and the way you prevent them at the core of the cause. Which is oxidated stress which is the dark side of oxygen or we’re rusting inside…
Sid: Which I promised we’d talk about, I’m glad you got there.
Ray: And that is even though oxygen is essential for life itself it’s almost inherently dangerous for our existence. And so what we’re finding is over 70 of these chronic degenerative diseases are the result of what I call the oxygen or that we’re rusting inside. The same process that changes a cut apple to brown or rust metal is rusting us inside. I can explain that process. The simplest way that I can explain it Sid is that if you’re watching a home fire burn 95% of the time it burns just fine but occasionally there’s a spark and out comes a cinder and burns a little whole in the carpet. Well, that’s not a big deal but month after month and year after year you got a pretty ratty carpet right in front of your fireplace. And so what you have to realize is that cinder is like a charged oxygen molecule or a free radical. But the carpet is our body so whatever our body wears out first is what kind of a disease we end up with. If it’s a brain it could be Alzheimer’s, dementia or Parkinson’s, if it’s the joints you could get arthritis, if it’s the arteries you could have a heart attack or a stroke. But God did not leave us defenseless, what we have is a tremendous anti-oxygen defense system which is like the glass doors of the fine wire mesh that you put in front of the fireplace. And even though the sparks are still going to fly you’re body or carpet is protected. And so it all becomes a matter of balance and so that’s my book “What Your Doctor Doesn’t Know About Nutritional Medicine.”
Sid: That’s such a tragedy, I mean we go to our doctors for help, they want to help us why don’t they… why didn’t you understand this for most of your career as a medical doctor?
Ray: Well, because I wasn’t trained in it. I wasn’t trained in preventing disease; I was trained in treating pretty serious end stage disease with my drugs, surgery, and all of our procedures we do. That’s the way doctors work; we’re not trained in preventing disease. We don’t know anything about it. And I was just a typical doctor and now when we talk about preventive medicine in like HMO’s and stuff like that; are you going to your doctor what are they doing Sid? They’re just looking for early signs of silent disease or disease. We want to know is that cholesterol up, is your blood pressure up, do you have silent sigs of diabetes
Sid: And you know I don’t take…personally I don’t take medicine. However I do take vitamins and herbs and when I talk with you you just said “Sid you just go on this diet and take the right small number of vitamin and herbs but by going on this diet and exercising you don’t even need some of those herbs that are supposed to lower your cholesterol, that are supposed to lower your blood pressure. I wish… oh we’re out of time, Mishpochah.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to hear God’s voice and be obedient. What more could you… I can’t ask for anything more than that. And so I’m so excited my friend Dr. Gary Whetstone was in Israel in 2005; he had an open vision in which he saw people marching like armies throughout all of history. And some heard God’s voice, but most of them what they did for God was burned with fire; they might have been saved themselves, but they wasted their entire purpose on planet earth. Now you were telling me as we ran out of time that you had the most supernatural experience Gary this was before you took the course by the way; I’m sorry before you developed the course. You heard the audible voice of God through a very supernatural means; told to purchase a building, you’re a pastor, you wanted a church in that area you had leaders that wanted it; so you naturally finished God’s statement. He told you to buy it and you had all the plans; A-B-C you put it all together with your logical brain kicking into gear and you found out once after that open vision you started hearing God’s voice that “Yes, He called you to buy the building but not make it a church. And so you sold the church; what did you do with the proceeds out of curiosity?
Gary: We paid off the entire campus of property that we have here in Delaware and the whole ministry everything that we have in other church building we owned that is running that God did speak to do and that is continuing and we paid everything off. We have no debt, everything is completely debt free. We made $1,500,000 on that transaction.
Sid: Now when you put together this course based on the revelation you got on how to hear God’s voice and the first people that took it they were members of your church. I understand it had affects in every area of their life. Let’s take one marriage; give me an example of what happened when people started really hearing God’s voice for themselves about their marriage.
Gary: I’m teaching on hearing the voice of God and a man is coming up with a fiancé to get married, he’s in his 30′s; beautiful guy, beautiful girl looked like everything’s got it together they’re… and I said “Did you hear God’s voice.” He said “Look, he said “This is about… he quoted the scripture “He who finds a wife finds a good thing and gets favor from the Lord.” I said “Okay, is she your wife?” He says “Well, my divorce is final.” And I said “Oh, you’re divorced,” and I said “What about your ex-wife, is she remarried?” He said “Well, I don’t know I don’t have any contact with her.” And I said “Well, how do you know this is your wife?” He’ says “Well, I’m divorced” I said “Where does divorce have authority with God.” He said “Well, we have ill reconcilable differences.” And I said “What is that, that’s selfish; you have yourself, she’s got herself and you don’t have two self’s together.” And he said “I’m not going to revisit my past,” and I said “Wait a minute,” I said “No, let’s find out from God is God speaking to you.” Next thing you know he’s a little upset with me, she’s very upset with me because she figured “Finally I got married.” He comes back he said “You know, I don’t know what it is but I got this thing I went to God and I got this love for my ex-wife.” And I said “Where is she?” He goes “I don’t know.” I said “You better find her.” He said “This is… you can’t believe what you did to me.” I said “I didn’t do anything to you.” I said “You’re going down and pathway of emotion and flesh and natural desire and here is God and He is speaking.” His wife was in California, he didn’t even know where she was, had no contact with her; he finds her there, I don’t l know how he found her but he discovers her in the next week or so. They communicate, they get back together and they get remarried again; I mean just the supernatural…
Sid: Was this very unusual situation or is does it happen many times in your church?
Gary: Oh, we have right now in the church at least 20 families that have been completely divorced and remarried. In fact, this Sunday I have stood with a woman for 18 years for her husband who has been gone from her. All of a sudden he comes back last week, this is 18 years later; she stood she raised her children to obey God; they’re in college, they’ve graduated, one graduated from college, the other one is in college now. The children came to me on Sunday, this just happened just a couple of days ago, and they said “Pastor Gary you got to call mom.” I said “What happened, she goes “Dad came; he goes “Dad came home.” I said “Praise God.” But he said “But you don’t understand he came home with another family.” And I said “What do you mean?” He had been living with another woman, had children, all of a sudden he hears God speak to him, he’s been in rebellion and he’s been in disobedience; he’s walked in the flesh and he comes back to his wife and he tells his wife “I have other children, will you take them as yours?” So the kids are standing there in front of me and they say “What do we do?” I said “You got other brothers and sisters, thank God.”
Sid: You know, hearing God’s voice, tell me some of the other voices that people hear when they don’t hear God’s voice.
Gary: Oh, they hear voices of logic take them down the course of normal procedure that takes place in life just what everybody does the engine of life. People are so accustomed to waking up, going to work, doing the same things. How do you know you are at work at a place that God has even called you? How do you know that you are even in a country that God called you to be in? People do so many things out of rote and just traditional functionality that if they heard God many people would change countries, they would change jobs, they would change locations; they would operate… I mean I heard God, I am making serious money in business, and God speaks to me “Sell, it.” I said “Sell it?” I knew that was it, I was going to sell the companies and that’s what happens, people get these thoughts…
Sid: But logic could not have told you to do that, only God could have told you to do that.
Gary: I am making hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in business and this is in the 70′s early 80′s like 81. I’m 28 years old, 29 years old. I finally got a national franchise put together that I owed for the entire 48 states; I’m ready to make millions every year without even thinking and God says “Sell it, walk away.” See the voice of God is what directs us; sometimes people are looking for where they have favor, they think favor leads them. That’s a traditional, that’s a favorite Christian principal, favor will lead you. Favor doesn’t lead you, God leads you. He may lead you into the lion’s den so the lion can’t eat you so God will be glorified and have vindication in a nation.
Sid: Now I’m looking at the success of the first church and what’s going on with what we call church in America some of the… we have a Hebrew word mishegoss, the craziness going on; the seeker sensitive movement it works logically people should do it but what’s wrong with that?
Gary: The basis is social acceptance; social networking; the interaction platform of favor brings favor; joy brings joy; happiness brings happiness; peace brings peace. Don’t bring any controversy to bare, don’t bring truth to bare because every man is a truth unto themselves. And as this placated deception permeates and becomes what some call Christianity, and here is the Living God who rose His Son from the dead to put the Son of God’s life in us; so God can direct us. We don’t direct God; the fallacy is we think God is a bellboy that we ding when we ding and He comes when He comes to our beckon call. And we are His servants Sid; we are called by God under His voice to do His will that the difference is like night and day. There is such clarity of hearing the voice of God in the earth; God’s Spirit is speaking to every person listening right now. You hear the voice of God; there are some that are listening to this program and you are in the middle of just.. I’m watching people washing dishes, I’m watching somebody driving their car. I’m watching another person just sitting at a living room setting and their listening kind of arbitrary and now there’s attention brought and there’s a voice of God speaking. There is a ending of what you’re doing now and the beginning of what God is doing next. There is a current present voice of God speaking in the Spirit of the children of God listening at this moment and they hearing the voice of God will end what they’re doing and do what God’s speaking. Those of you listening right now you can feel the presence of God drawing you; you can sense the shutting down of that voice of logic and reason and the plethora of constant drone of negatively. You go from problem to problem and there’s no significant sense of fulfilling God’s will in your life. God is changing it right now.
Sid: There is such an anointing on the teaching that Dr. Gary Whetstone does on this course; the title is “Today, Hear His voice.” This is a Bible School course designed for leaders but the truth is everyone must do these two things. And I have to believe that’s always been essential but if now; with what’s going on planet earth. I mean let’s just suppose the scenarios about the US dollar are true and it will be worth nothing someday. That doesn’t mean diddly to someone who can hear God’s voice and be obedient to it. So this is 6 DVD’s it’s an entire course; it’s a study guide, and if you take this you will hear God’s voice. Just because you hear God’s voice it doesn’t mean you’ll be obedient; but I believe the anointing is so strong on this course that you’ll not only hear God’s voice but you’ll be obedient to what he tells you to do… This is what you’ve been crying out to God for.
Sid: We want everyone everywhere to hear the good news. In order for that to happen everyone that knows the Messiah everywhere must walk in their destiny. It’s a wonderful orchestra and each musician has a special part, not one better than the other. When your find your destiny and walk in it you will be the happiest person on earth. My guest Lance Wallnau has found his destiny and is about ready to walk into new destiny with God. Many of you are about ready to walk into a new destiny with God. As the 2 of us talk about what God has made real in our lives I believe the Holy Spirit will begin to speak to you. We were talking on yesterday’s broadcast Lance what this nice pastor who gets invited to speak for about 250 people connected with the United Nations. He’s thinking “What am I going to say to these people I can’t preach the gospel” what was the actual reason they wanted you to speak?
Lance: This is the amazing thing they had heard that I was an authority on leadership development.
Sid: Because you’re a pastor?
Lance: To help teach them, how to expand their capacity, to achieve their dreams for United Nations goals that they have.
Sid: Okay I can chuckle but I’m sure you didn’t chuckle when you determined “What am I going to speak about?”
Lance: You know till you walk with God I remember years ago I heard Art Katz say that he said “You start walking in faith the next thing is that you’re not knowing what you’re going to say until you get up and open your mouth.” Talk about living on the prophetic edge that’s just about what happened to me.
Sid: So basically what did you say?
Lance: The main message the Lord spoke to me is that there’s a leadership vacuum at the top of the nations. That if we will fill the vacuum with the authority of our utterance. You know Jesus when He spoke they said He spoke as one having authority. That meant that when he spoke there was anointing on His words that cleave the atmosphere in half. So I just simply went up and began to describe to them the way in which we’re designed to walk as human beings; the way in which nations were designed to relate to each other; and the way in which each individual has gifts and callings, and talent, and destiny that God put in them for His own purpose and glory. If we understand how this works we can actually activate that gifting.
Sid: Now this is a secular group mostly probably nonbelievers in the Messiah for sure. How did they react?
Lance: It’s remarkable. This was my wakeup call. I had people coming up to me and giving me handshakes from Muslim and communist nations in these various meetings. Sneaking me their email addresses and saying to me in my ear “Our country needs this.” It had me in tears Sid because I realized that what we have as a teaching community the information, the revelation we have, if we could learn to adapt our language we could penetrate any culture.
Sid: Now they actually invited you back another time to speak at the UN, tell me about that.
Lance: The next invitation was even funnier because now I’m going to be speaking to all Ph.D.’s, the best scientist in the world from the UN in Canada; have been sent in there for a couple of weeks for special training from the world’s best in the area of oceanography, and ocean affairs or something. Here again I’m arriving there I’m saying “Lord what am I doing?” When I get there… I had a manual that I prepared for believers and it said “Destiny By Design – How to Understand Your Gifts and Bring Them Out.” I sent it ahead because it was the only thing I had in literature and the professor stopped me at the gate when I got to the college where the sessions were and they said “Dr. Wallnau we apologize but the UN and the University has a very strict policy regarding proselytizing. Unfortunately your language is extremely pro… one view point.” Of course Jesus and I said “Yes.” They said well we can’t distribute the manual. So I breathed in and the Lord basically showed me stealth bomber going in, and He just basically spoke to me and said “I’m sending you in here you simply will go ahead and teach without having to quote chapter and verse and watch the power of My word.” So for 3 days I activated these into being the people God called them to be, discerning their talents, their abilities, understanding how to communicate, how to relate to each other, respecting differences, learning how to negotiate and be peacemakers. By the time I was done they said they had universally said, I’m not saying because it’s me, universally they said “It was the most high impact 3 days of training they’ve ever had at that UN event.” The head of the department took me to the faculty lunch room and asked me if I was franchising the material so that he could take it up to Kobian and at the UN.
Sid: And this was the material it’s too heavily slanted towards Jesus?
Lance: Exactly. So what I did was I simply pulled out the antagonizing references and simply taught the word of God. The thing I realized Joseph demonstrated his gifting before Pharaoh. He interpreted Pharaoh’s dream, he demonstrated the superior wisdom of God’s counsel, and in concert by the time that was done Pharaoh comes to the conclusion “This man has the spirit of God.” Joseph didn’t go in and say “Hi I’m a Jewish prophet I need to tell you about Jehovah.”
Lance: He goes in and interprets the guys dream at which point the guy says “You know you’ve got something none of us have.” So it was clear to these people when I was done that I revealed to them my beliefs about Jesus, my personal beliefs and how it works for me. There wasn’t a person in there Sid that by day 3 wasn’t ready to receive more revelation on God because I built a platform of credibility first.
Sid: What we were talking about on yesterday’s broadcast Mishpochah is supernatural favor. Something you go into in your teaching CD’s “In a Heartbeat” that is really the thing that makes you tick Lance is most believers segment the supernatural of God to “Religious Activities.” God wants us to take the gospel out the 4 walls and into the market place. Explain.
Lance: Absolutely, you know this came to a head for me. I work with prophets… I’m first a teacher, second a prophet. So one of my friends Kim Clement prophesied over a man in an audience in Atlanta, and he said “Sir the Lord tells me you’re going to have a political call upon your life and you’re going to have a son named Caleb, and he’s going to follow you in your footsteps.” Well this man’s name is Michael Crotts he was considering running for state senate and that prophetic word pushed him over the edge. He went out on a campaign trail Sid he was out campaigning for 6 months based on the prophetic encouragement of that word from the prophet. He falls down dead of a heart attack. They wheel him into I believe it was the Atlanta General he’s in there for 27 minutes flat line, one of the longest recorded flat line subjects ever to be revised. Twenty-seven minutes flat lined his wife comes running in and with the prophetic word in her hand. She grabs him by the foot and starts to say “The word of the Lord says you’re going to have a son and your son’s going to be named Caleb and he’s going to walk…”
Sid: But he’s dead. [Laughing]
Lance: And he’s dead! The physician Sid called for security. They said “Get this delirious Pentecostal out of here.” She refuses to leave and she’s holding on… it’s almost like a situation comedy except it’s serious. She’s holding on to his leg prophesying, the security is holding onto her other arm pulling her out and the physicians are yelling because they can’t resuscitate the man. In the meantime Michael Crotts is nowhere near the chaos he’s out of his body in heaven. He’s standing Sid in front of a great ocean, the ocean suddenly has 7 islands. The islands come up out of the ocean and a great mountain, they form into mountains, and a great mountain forms behind them. Now here you an ocean, 7 mountains and a great mountain. Yeshua speaks to this man and says “Those 7 mountains are 7 world kingdoms, and that mountain in the middle is the mountain you are called to go into. It is the political arena, but there must be agreement.” Then the Lord points to the great mountain behind the other mountains that basically overshadows all of them. He says “That mountain is the mountain of My kingdom and it is greater than all the kingdoms of the earth.” At that moment Phyllis Crotts shifts her strategy from prophesying over the dead man to commanding him to live. She say “Michael in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ come back into your body now!” At that moment his heartbeat came back he sucked in breath and he resuscitated. The doctors turned to her… this is amazing you know doctors this is an unusual situation so we have to give them some grace. They turned to her and say “Now you’ve done it he’ll be brain dead!”
Lance: Twenty-seven minutes… blaming her for resurrecting him.
Sid: [Laughing] Well at least they didn’t say he stinks, but go ahead.
Lance: [Laughing] All of sudden she inhales fear and thinks “What did I do?” What do you do reverse that after you send them back in, send them back out? Suddenly his voice breaks the silence and he says “Where is my son Caleb?” The prophetic word yet unfulfilled was still in his spirit. He spoke, he sat up, he was completely resuscitated went on to be elected a state senator and the 2 of them went on to adopt a child named Caleb. Now here’s my point, Sid the story itself is phenomenal, but what captures me is Jesus says to the man “Basically I’m giving you life because there’s a purpose, a mountain, for you to take and it’s the mountain of politics.” Now if that was one of the 7 my question is what are the other 6?
Lance: To what degree is God not inviting you and your listeners and all the people I’m talking to to rise up fulfill destiny and come into pressing into taking possession of territory. I think that’s the issue. I’m doing a wealth conference, speaking at a wealth conference in Canada British Columbia. Loren Cunningham who’s got Youth With a Mission pulls me aside, he’s a speaker. He says “Lance did I ever tell you about the 7 mountains?” I said “Huh! You know about the 7 mountains?” He said “Yeah. One day Bill Bright and I were gonna go to breakfast, and we had never met. Our staff’s put us together. Bill Bright with Campus Crusade, and me with Youth With a Mission, and it was time we met. We had heard about each other. The morning we met before we met the Lord gave us both a word and vision. We both saw 7 world kingdoms that we were to challenge each other to take the next generation to train them to penetrate these kingdoms.” He said “Lance we sat down and to our surprise we both had the same 7 mountains.” He said “They were:
- Media through technology and communication
- Arts and entertainment, and athletics.
- Financial business mountain
He who takes those mind molders shapes the culture.”