Sid: Well my guest Kynan Bridges is red hot for the Messiah; I mean he literally woke up one night and sees Jesus right at the foot of his bed. But before we get to that Kynan let’s kind of whet their appetite just a little bit. I want you to tell me the story of the woman who was in a car accident and she had most of the bones in her legs and knees and thighs were crushed. Tell me about her.
Kynan: Yeah, this was a very remarkable story; this woman had been a very very devastating car accident, almost lost her life. Her daughter almost died in the car accident which is a whole other story. And they told her that she would never walk again and if she by chance was able to walk she would never be able to wear heals, do anything, play any sports, do any physical activity at all. Well anyway, this woman got a hold of our teaching and she began to understand more about the promises in God’s word for healing and the provision for divine healing through the cross of the Messiah. And she began to give this until she started coming to our meetings and while she was coming to our meetings, one night we had a prayer meeting and literally we’re praying and we were getting ready to release the power of our God. And as we were doing that the fire of God literally came down on this lady and she just hit the floor. Boom! And when she hit the floor she began to wail and to scream for about 30 minutes straight. Well after this we kind of you know we helped her up and went on about our business. Well about 2 days later while I was at an event I noticed someone came in the door that was wearing full workout gear. And she walks up to me with sweat falling down her head and with her workout gear on and I said “Hey, how you doing?” And she says “Do you know where I just came from?” I said “No mam.” And she said “I just ran 9 miles.” And I said “Say that again” She said “I just ran 9 miles.” And I’m looking at her and she says “You don’t understand, I ran 9 miles.” The girls that ran with her literally pulled over to the side of the road and had to vomit. And this lady is running full force with not a single ounce of pain in her body. Since then she skates regularly, she wears high heels. What happened to her Sid when the fire of God was coming down on her the Holy Spirit was literally transfusing the metal in her leg to bone. And she was supernaturally healed.
Sid: You know that that’s happening more and more to people to people metal from implants turning to bone. But now I’ve got to take you back, on yesterday’s broadcast we talked about Jesus questioned the condition of your heart. I mean that has got to be kind of devastating. What did He mean exactly?
Kynan: Well when we think about the condition of our heart you know often times we think about our sins that we commit or I call them the big sins you know adultery, fornication, murder, those kind of things. And I was not participating in any of those but I believe that I believe that it goes deeper than that. Sid I believe that when we talk about the condition of our heart we’re talking about the state of our soul in reference to the way we see God, our desire for Him, our longing for Him. And what has happened in the Body of Christ is the hearts of many have waxed cold. We have somehow through our mind through the circumstances of our lives we’ve become distracted. We’ve become preoccupied and really we don’t know it but really it’s a form of idolatry because what has happened is people have placed their trust and faith in another source. And so the Lord was dealing with me, He was dealing with me about the fact that if you’re not seeing My power it’s not my fault. That’s basically what God was saying to me. “You need to search your heart and make sure that there’s nothing blocking the flow of My power or My presence or My love in your heart.” Because our heart is a repository, it’s like a bank. And that what the word heart means kardia in the Greek. It’s talking about the repository of your thoughts, your emotions, your mindset. That’s why Jesus says “If a man looks at a woman to lust after her he’s committed adultery with her in his heart.” Because once the heart begins to desire something else as far as God’s concerned that is already done. And so when we look at the heart the Bible talks about how “The hearts of the fathers will be turned back to the children, to the sons.” And I believe that that’s what the Lord was doing and that’s what He was dealing with. Dealing with how we see Him, how much we love Him, is He first in our lives? Is He our hearts desire, do we long for Him more than we long for anything else.
Sid: Alright, what if someone says to those questions you just shot out “No, no, no but I want it to change.” What is your advice?
Kynan: Again, like we said previously the first thing is to be honest with ourselves. I mentioned earlier about Peter and the people that heard the message of the gospel for the first time in Acts chapter 2 and they said “What must we do to be saved?” You know often times when we think of salvation Sid we think of people that are not in relationship with God coming into relationship with God and that is a part of salvation. That is an introductory part of salvation. But the salvation experience is continuous, we are daily experiencing salvation, we are daily experiencing salvation, we are daily experiencing deliverance. And that happens as we repent, as we turn from our way as we turn from what we believe and we turn to what God says as the truth. The more we do that the more our heart is open to him. The more that we will begin to desire Him. You know let me share this real quick because the Lord just dropped this in my spirit. The most homeopathic doctors suggest that the average American has never experienced hunger. Because hunger is not something in the western world that were really familiar with and here’s why. Most people believe that when their stomach growls when they get hungry that means it’s time to eat. So they say “Hey, my stomachs growling that means my body’s telling me it’s time to eat.” You know what’s actually happening Sid when your stomach growls?
Kynan: You’re actually detoxifying, your body’s detoxifying itself real hunger begins in the throat. And here’s my point, I want to make this clear point. The Bible says “Blessed are those that hunger and thirst for righteousness for they shall be filled.” Now why do I say that? Most people in the Body of Christ have been so full of toxins, religious toxins, mental toxins, physical toxins that they have never experienced the wonderful, the miraculous hunger for God. And whatever you hunger after is what you’re going to be filled with. So when you hunger for His presence, when you hunger for His power you’re going to be filled with His presence, you’re going to be filled with His power. And so I believe that’s when the Holy Spirit is really saying in this hour.
Sid: I see that very clearly. I want to take you now to the moment where Jesus, and this happened fairly recently, Jesus was at the foot of your bed calling your name.
Kynan: So, I’m sleeping one night and again like I mentioned I’d been asking God “You know, I want to know You, I want to encounter You.” And I have to be honest, I get jealous of people where they have all of these experiences where they see Jesus and they’re taken to heaven and I said God “What about me?” (Laughing) you know, so I’m sleeping in my bed one night and I look up and I hear a sound that’s awaken me, almost like someone’s calling my name. And I look and standing at the foot of my bed is a man dressed in all white. It’s almost like surreal and this is a very real experience and I know by the Spirit that this is the Lord Jesus Himself. And He begins to call out to me He says “Kynan, Kynan.” I say “Yes Lord” but by the time that I was in the middle of deep sleep so I was a little bit sleepy and it’s like “Here I am and you’re not even ready to hear Me when I’m calling you or when I’m trying to visit you.” And Sid, He did the most amazing thing he reached into his chest and he pulled out his heart, and this was not a… the best way I can describe it. This was not like a horror movie experience, this was something spiritual. He reaches into His chest and He pulls out His heart and He extends it to me. And it begins to beat and as He pulled out His heart and extends it towards me. I begin to feel what He feels, I begin to have the desires that He has. It’s almost like I was feeling and reading His heart and it was beating. And I knew by the Holy Ghost what He was trying to say to me and He says “This is My heart for the nations.” I realized Sid that His heart was broken, and the reason why His heart was broken was because of millions of believers and even unbelievers are being tormented by the devil. They’re being afflicted in their bodies and guess what Sid they’re blaming Jesus for it.
Sid: The only one that has paid the price to heal them. The devil has them coming and going.
Kynan: Yes, and He is broken because He says “Don’t you know the sacrifice, Kynan don’t they know the sacrifice that I made for them, Don’t they know the price that I paid for their healing and restoration, don’t they know what I had to go through so that they could be made whole?”
Sid: Kynan, our time is up right I hate to break you right here but I have to.
SID: Hello. Welcome. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. Wait until you hear this. My guest gets caught up into the heavenlies and eavesdrops on conversations between Jesus and Father God, and then he, it’s like an actor on the stage, he just acts out what they’ve been saying. Isn’t that what the Messiah taught? I only do what I see my Heavenly Father doing. My guest comes from a non-religious home, good parents, but a non-religious home, and at age 12, he had a defining moment. What happened?
SHANE: Well at age 12, I went to visit my grandfather and again, didn’t know anything about Jesus, didn’t know who he was, and had a visitation from the Lord where He appeared to me. And I sought for years to describe that experience. The only thing I could find is in Isaiah 6, where it says, “I was undone,” I literally felt undone. I had not committed any great sin, but I just knew that I had need of Him, and the feeling was overwhelming. He walked up to me, put his hand on my head, it literally burned like fire, and he said, “I’ve called you to the nations.” And I just began to weep uncontrollably.
SID: When he put his hand on your head, people use adjectives. Flippantly, you said it felt like a fire. Did it really?
SHANE: It literally felt like fire, like my head was on fire. In fact, I closed my eyes and started weeping, and when I looked back up, he was gone, but I could still feel his hand on my head.
SID: Now you said to me that many times since that time when you’re, you feel the fire on your head, as a matter of fact, you know what it sounds like? Shavuot, Pentecost, when flames of fire came on the heads of the people that were praying. Do you think that might have been the same fire?
SHANE: I think it exactly was the same fire, and here’s the reason why. A week later, I invited my parents, my grandparents, everybody to church, and went to the altar to receive something, I didn’t know what I was going for. And the preacher said, “What are you here for?” And I said, “I don’t know.” He said, “Have you received the Holy Spirit?” I said, no. He came down, put his hand on my head, exact same place, same fire hit me. I fell out. I never even heard of anything called the Holy Spirit. I began to speak in a heavenly language. And when I came to, I heard the loudest screaming you could ever hear, and my mother and daddy were at the altar. They were being delivered and set free. And God healed our family, touched my dad’s life, changed our whole world, turned it upside down, took us out of poverty and took us into wealth. I mean, God literally turned it, and it was the same fire. It’s the same fire that I feel right now setting here talking with you.
SID: Do you feel that fire in your head now, out of curiosity?
SHANE: I feel it right now. I felt it all day. I felt it for the last three days since I’ve known that I was coming to film this program.
SID: Well here’s what I believe. I believe that fire of God is on your head right now and I believe that if you will pray miracles will break out right now.
SHANE: You’re closer to a miracle than you think you are. And in the name of Jesus, I release the power of God into your situation. All you need is one touch from him and he’s closer to you than your own breath. And right now in the name of Jesus Christ I take authority over every illness, over every disease, over every bondage, no matter what’s going on in your life, I release the power of God into your life, into your situation. Rise up and be set free in the name of Jesus Christ.
SID: You’re a young man. Your father died. Your mother is terminal. You’re at the end of your rope and the only thing you know to do, even though things look bad in the natural, is to worship God. You go into your music room, you take your guitar, you’re worshiping God. What happened?
SHANE: The only way I know how to describe this moment is I was caught up into the realms. People ask me, was it Heaven, and I can’t say. All I can say is I was caught up into the heavenlies and God began to show me things in the scripture that I had studied for years as a pastor, as a leader of a church. Built great churches, but didn’t have a revelation of the supernatural realm. And God began to release that revelation to me. This lasted for over seven hours. Seven hours later when I came back to myself, I was still sitting in that same chair with the guitar. And I had just determined in that moment, Sid, that my mother was dying. We had just had a man who was blind that had been healed. We had a man with a short limb that had grown out. Over 20-something people had been healed of cancer in our service, in one service. A little girl with eyes that were crossed, we literally watched them, and this so hard not to weep, but we literally watched them uncross before our eyes. She took her thick coke bottle-like glasses off. She can still see to this day. She’s a teenager now in our church. Could see. And I prayed and prayed, and asked God to heal my mother, who was dying, and I couldn’t seem to get a miracle. And so I just made a statement: God, no matter what happens, I’m going to worship you because you’re God no matter what. But Satan, I want you to know something. That no matter what happens tonight, you will never take my song. You can’t take my praise and you can’t take my worship. And I just went crazy and started praising God.
SID: You didn’t go crazy. You became normal as defined by the Bible. And I believe there are people watching us right now and you’re going through situations like this, and you’re saying, God where are you? And I tell you the same thing that Shane told you. You are God and my peanut brain doesn’t have all the facts. But if I had all the facts, I would get down on my face, I would repent for doubting God and I would worship Him the way Shane did, and I would be normal. Normal as defined by the Bible. We’re going to come right back and find out some of these mysteries that God revealed during this seven-hour visitation. Don’t go away.
Sid: I’m so excited about the remnant package that we’re making available this week, brand new book by Pat Schatzline “I AM Remnant” the 3 powerful messages on CD. When he shares these miracles erupt and the “Manifesto of the Remnant” poster. You told me this was downloaded to you from heaven. Number 1 What is the purpose or these 34 proclamations?
Pat: The remnant proclamations or manifesto are compasses or plumblines to guide the remnant to stand firm in the darkness of culture. And God gave me 34 and I just began to write them down on my phone. As He gave them to me I felt the presence of God and would break for a moment and began to weep, and I would pray in the Spirit. If was as if I was walking I felt as if there was angels standing over my shoulders. And I’ve seen angels obviously and encounters with angels, supernatural experiences with angels. In fact the minute I got done writing it I got back to my car and laying in the front seat was a white feather. I just started laughing, I said “God you’re so good.” And then I looked up and my wife and I believe strongly the rainbow has always been used to show us we’re on the right track. And I look up and I’m about to pull away and I took a picture over my phone and there was a rainbow, a rainbow streaking across the sky. And it was as if the Lord was saying in the Hebrew “Y-O-O” or well done is the word in the Hebrew. It was as if I could hear the Lord say “Okay, now you’re ready to write the book.” And I used those to write the vision right. And there’s people listening right now I want to go ahead and warn you while you’re on this call if you’re driving, at home, or wherever your listening you’re going to feel the glory of the Lord overwhelm you and you’re not going to understand it except to say that it’s His love. Because the Lord just put that in my spirit to tell you, His right there beside you you’re not alone.
Sid: Tell me a couple of the proclamations, and I might add you proclaim these on one of the 3 powerful messages we’re making available in additions to the poster. But tell me a few that were downloaded from heaven.
Pat: The remnant will consist of failures, fatherless, forgotten and freedom fighters. And their pedigree is out of a scared Savior. The remnant cannot be defined by man’s human concepts because the remnant finds their value in the eyes of their Savior. A remnant will not… the remnant has decided that at all costs I will not quit on the One that would not quit on them. And I could keep going until it begins to burn in my spirit. I may start preaching but the remnant doesn’t stop when they should have died because they know that Jesus did. And the remnant has chosen to let go of past hurts in order to experience the freedom that comes with forgiving and moving forward. The remnant has chosen to leave a life of compromise for the spirit of consecration being set apart. And here’s my favorite “The remnant understands the fruit of the Spirit is not a salad for a church Pot Luck, but rather the diet of a lifetime. And the remnant knows the gifts of the Spirit are not for the Evangelical, Charismatic and Pentecostal talent show but the weapons of a dying Leader who has chosen Spirit over flesh and freedom over slavery.” That’s just some of them right there that God gave me.
Sid: Tell me about the statement the Oscar goes to the remnant that says “Yes.”
Pat: “The Oscar Goes To” is a chapter that I’m going to get real with you. I’m so frustrated with celebrity Christianity. And so many times a lot of people don’t realize the only celebrities in the Bible were children. And so many times, and the Lord has really dealt with me about this because of traveling and speaking over the world. The only red carpet in the Bible was where the blood of the martyrs was spilled. And the only roped areas where they hung the martyrs those that stood for Christ. And Jesus would had had a handlers, the woman with the issue of blood wouldn’t have never gotten to it. So the chapter on the Oscar goes to the… it so burns in me…the about those who will stand and realize that we are not the celebrity Jesus is. You know He always tells me I’ll get ready to walk on stage and He’ll say “Pat you open the curtain for me and let My glory show, if they can see you they can’t see me.” And God says to me “Pat you’re at a place where I’m crushing you like an olive to get the anointing oil out of you and I’m expecting you to stand up and be pure; it’s not about who knows you, it’s about who knows Me.” And I think so many times Sid people are literally screaming “No, not Him give us Barabbas.” And what I mean by that is we’re screaming “Look at me, don’t look at Jesus” because if they look at Jesus they might realize that we don’t look like Him very much. And God has called the remnant to be the humble, the broken, the ones who will weep and cry out to Him. The ones that will simply grab someone by the hand an unknown person and say “Let me walk you back to the cross.” So that’s where that guy the Oscar goes to is I’ll be honest I felt the Lord tell me “No more celebrities, I’m looking for the broken the remnant.”
Sid: You know I had a dream very similar to that when I was a brand new believer and let me tell you about my dream Pat. I was in heaven and it was academy rewards, not a-ward, academy rewards night. And so they opened up the envelope and I thought in my heart in this dream “Boy my name’s going to come out.” And instead a little old crinkled woman got the award and I’m looking at her. And then God speaks to me and God says “That could have been you.” I’m going to tell you something that really put the fear of God in me.
Sid: But that’s the same thing that you’re talking about. You talk about the world going after the superstars and giving the superstars the trophies but what is God looking for?
Pat: You know about a year ago I had a dream and I fell asleep in a hotel room in Arkansas and I was speaking the next morning. And suddenly in my dream Jesus… and I’m not even sure that it was a dream as much as a visitation. Jesus walked into my hotel room and all I could see was His foot. But as He got closer I’m in a hotel room in my sleep I began go scream “Please do not come any closer or I’ll die” the fear of God came into my hotel room. And I said “If you come any closer I’ll die Lord.” And the Lord, all I saw was one foot with a scar print and I’m literally screaming in my sleep in my hotel room. And the Lord said to me “Son if you give me everything you have I’ll give you everything I have, if you’ll tell this world if they give me everything they have I’ll give them everything I have.” And suddenly He was gone, I was so shaken to the core, I got up and I turned on worship and began to dance before the Lord at 1:00 in the morning in a hotel room in Arkansas. And I began to study John 7 where it say “Ask seek and knock.” Those are perpetual terms that means “Never stop asking, never stop seeking, never stop knocking” because He’s there and He’s calling out to you. And it wrecked me much like your dream because I realized had I really given God everything? He said “I want everything about you Pat.”
Sid: But, but wait a second how do you do that you can’t do that by yourself, what do you suggest you’re doing it, and what do we do?”
Pat: Well, I’ll be honest if that moment, and it started with me when my sister suddenly died of a drug overdose 7 years ago when I suddenly realized okay for years I’ve done it on my own, for years I’ve tried to build ministry and all of that kind of stuff. And it’s at that place where the end of yourself is the beginning of God. It’s a place where you get down and you say “God without You I’ve got nothing.” It’s a place where you come to contentment with His presence. My wife speaks a great deal about revelation about drinking from the well and getting to that place where you say “God, I died to everything, it’s not legalism it’s relationship.” It’s making up your mind “I’m not going to be a part of this world because I am awkward, I am called to be different, I am called to be separate.” But it’s tough, and I’m going to say this everybody talks about changing wineskins and it’s a powerful statement. But a lot of people don’t realize that once the wineskin changes God has to ferment the wine. It means it’s a long season of breaking and crushing and crying out and saying “I’m desperate.” God loves you so much that He won’t let you avoid the encounter, He forces you into encounter.
Sid: You make another statement and that is it should take less than 10 seconds to get into God’s presence. That’s sounds wonderful, is that true for everyone?
Pat: I believe that it’s for every single person. It’s like I can be in a crowd of 5 or 5,000 and simply say “The Holy Spirit is standing in front of you and He’s breathing on your face like He did to the disciples in John 20.” And people will begin to weep and wail. I was in a church several weeks ago, 3 weeks ago in North Carolina and I was walking on stage a crowd of 1000’s and I’m going to walk on stage and God said “God open the door and invite My Spirit in.” And I said “Lord Your already here I feel You. He said “I know, but I want to give them a tangible moment.” Sid this honestly happened. I run over to the side door of the sanctuary and I said “Folks this is just for me I guess and I say “Holy Spirit would You come in.” And at that moment people began to wail and cry out and weep, multicultural church, began to run to the front crying out to God. Because I believe your lifestyle shouldn’t change when you get to heaven. The encounter, I will say this when I talk to young ministers, you’re 30 minutes away from any moral failure, the enemy will track you. Thirty minutes away from making a mistake but your only 10 seconds from the presence of God to save you.
Sid: Now you say the whole thing, the whole process can start with a simple prayer that we believe. Later this week would you lead us in that prayer?
Pat: I’d be honored to, yes Sir.
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. My guest Steven Brooks operates in all nine gifts of the Spirit and he says every true believer in the Messiah can operate in these gifts. There’s no rejects. Every one of you can operate in these gifts. And he tells me that when he prays to activate the gifts that are within you, they’re going to be activated. You want that? Recently I had just a wonderful privilege of talking to an orthodox Jewish woman that came to know Messiah through a book that I had written and the only thing she knew, she didn’t know the Bible, she didn’t know anything except the book that I had written and our television show. And so I was trying to explain to her that some churches believe in miracles, some don’t believe in miracles, and you should have heard her reaction. Utter shock. They don’t believe in miracles? What’s wrong with them? Steven, you didn’t believe in miracles at one time. So, Steven Brooks, what turned it for you? In fact, you were taught not to believe in miracles.
STEVEN: Well all of my life growing up in church as a young child I was taught that the day of miracles had passed by. But I received a mighty baptism in the Holy Spirit when I was college. It changed my life and I found out that the power of God is still available to God’s people today.
SID: Now I would like to take some of the gifts of the Spirit and have you explain what they are, maybe give an example. Let’s take my favorite, the gift of healings.
STEVEN: Yes. That’s a wonderful gift. And as the old saying goes, “The gift of healing has always been the dinner bell for the lost.” In other words, back in the old days, a ranch hand would ring the dinner bell and then all the workers knew that means take a break, time to go to lunch. And so healing is still that dinner bell for the lost. And when those healing gifts are in manifestation, people will come to receive the healing power of God, and if we can have them come and receive that healing power, often times the lost also want to receive the healer as well. So they get the whole package: physical healing for the body, which is a restoration back to healing condition. The body may be diseased or injured or a condition of the body that previously held it back, coming back into a normal healed state. And the gifts of healings are very, very powerful. We must have them operating in the church today.
SID: I want them operating in the schools, in your business, when you’re shopping, when you’re going to the doctor’s. I think that this, I like what you said. It’s God’s dinner bell. It gets your attention, especially if you’re hungry. And people are hungry. You’re hungry. So Steven, there was a moment when you were touched with the supernatural gift of healing. Tell me about that.
STEVEN: Well before this gift was given to me, I would always pray for sick people, but I would pray with a prayer of faith. There was no tangible anointing or there was no manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit. But I would still see people healed just by praying in faith. They would connect their faith with mine and then that healing would come forth. But the gifts of healings are very powerful. It’s when the Holy Spirit works through you with a tremendous anointing. And that gift came upon me one day when I was in the Dallas, Texas area, and this gift came on me. It fell on me like I had put a garment over my shoulders. I said, “Lord, what is this?” He said, “From this day forward you will operate in the gifts of healings.” And a tremendous healing happened on that very same day as tangible proof that God had given me something that I had never walked in before.
SID: Tell me about the first time, the first one that happened that same day.
STEVEN: Well I was in Texas that day. I was staying at my brother’s house and my daughter came running into the house weeping and crying, screaming actually. And she said, “Daddy, they’re all over my legs.” I looked at her legs, there was nothing there, but she had brushed off the fire ants and she was still feeling their presence, but they stung her all over her legs. She had 28 welts that just broke out on her legs. I counted them and these red huge welts began to break out all over her legs. I laid my hands on her legs. I said, “In the name of Jesus, leave!” And every welt instantly disappeared, all the pain gone. She got up and went back outside and started playing.
SID: Did it shock you?
STEVEN: It did shock me. I had never had this happen before, ever. And before that, I would minister in the gift of prophecy and would minister in other gifts, but I never had the healing gift. So this was brand new. So I thought, I’m going to try it out. I’m going to go to the next meeting and I’m going to start praying for the sick. And the next meeting I went to I was going down the line praying for people, laying hands on them, and a young woman in the line, she was 16 years old, she had wore a back brace every day of her life. Matter of fact, she was required by the doctors to wear the back brace 22 hours out of every 24. And she had severe scoliosis of the spine, and I prayed for her, and I knew the Lord had touched her. I knew God got her. She went back to her seat, but when she walked back to her seat, she looked totally normal. And I left the next day to go to another meeting, but the pastor called me two days later. He said, “Steven, when she woke up the next morning, she got out of bed and her back was completely healed.” And on that same day, she had an appointment with the doctor. She went to the doctor. To the doctor’s great shock, he verified the healing. He said, “What happened to your back?” She said, “The Lord Jesus has healed my back.” And it was a dramatic healing. It was a miracle healing.
SID: You know Steven, he went with his wife Kelly to Israel with us as a guest teacher and a major miracle happened to one of our tourists. She had for, what was it, for 20 years multiple sclerosis?
STEVEN: She had severe pain with multiple sclerosis, and Sid has always enjoyed to see people get healed because often times they’re in tormenting pain. And to see the relief of that pain leave and to see the joy on a person’s face is priceless. And I remember we were there and I had ministered that night. There were some people that came forward for prayer. I had laid hands on her and God instantly healed her. All the pain left her body and it was an instantaneous miracle that happened right on the spot. That’s been four years.
SID: I was just going to ask how long has it been and he just answered. Four years after 20 years of that type of pain. I’m going to tell you something. That is normal according to the Bible that I read and it’s time that we started being normal. When we come back, I’m going to ask Steven to totally demystify the gifts of the Spirit.
Sid: My guest I’m speaking to him from his office in Denton Texas is Chuck Pierce. We’re talking to him about his book “The Worship Warrior.” And before we even get into the book I’ve got to pick up where we left off yesterday. We found out that Chuck came from a background of a father that was alcoholic and abusive and missed his call with God. And Chuck started walking down the same path but he had a grandmother that would not let go of God. And so he eventually through a whole series of events sold out to the kingdom of God. God spoke to him actually in a hospital and God said “I will restore all that you have lost. And then a little later he was in a car driving and the presence of God came in he experienced the love of God; Chuck that’s what everyone has to experience the love of God that has to be so life changing.
Chuck: Well, it’s great Sid to be back with you again and you know Galatians says “Faith worketh by love.” Now another thing in this book “Worship Warrior” that I try to explain is the 7 dimensions of faith that we go through and as we worship worship is a faith expression. So what was happening to me I was doing my normal and some of you that are listening to this you just might be driving to your normal workplace and doing just your normal daily routine. I was driving to downtown Houston where I worked in one of the major oil companies and the Spirit of God invaded my car again. And when He did that it was so overwhelming I couldn’t drive. And I said “Lord.” Because from the time I was 18 on and I think I was 24 at this time I had sought the Lord on a daily basis. You know He meets us, He changes us and you know we want to know Him. And I think discipline of seeking Him is a part of knowing Him. And so I have sought Him that morning in my quiet time and I was driving to work and all of a sudden His presence and love comes in the car and it’s so overwhelming that I could not drive. So I say these words to the Lord…when I pull over I’m weeping just weeping before the Lord. And I say “Lord this love is so overwhelming I’m not sure that I can handle it, why would You be pouring such love out on me?” And the Spirit of God spoke something that changed my life, he said He said to me He said “This is the love I had for your father.” And some of you are listening out there and you go through hard times and you wonder how can somebody be so messed up and how can things go wrong the way they went?” And all of a sudden the Lord showed me how much he loved my father even though my father had all of these problems and had fallen into the hands and the snares of the devil that didn’t change God’s love for him. And all of a sudden it was as if the heavens opened and I could see what God had intended for my father. And then not only could I see what God had intended for him but it was as if I could see how God wanted me to step into the godly inheritance that was there that had never been fulfilled.
Sid: Briefly, what did God have for your father?
Chuck: Oh, you could just see it the Lord had called him to advance the kingdom through wealth. The Lord had called him to…my Dad was so capable of whatever he touched turn to gold. Now if you’re listening out there I want to say this to you “There is a redemptive plan in your bloodline.” Now this will go back for you to understand Israel as well. God never forgets His redemptive plan and success means that the plan of redemption that God has for you you are fulfilling that plan. See success also means this that when you study the Hebrew and Greek it means that God has help for you on your road. And it was as if God was giving me revelation on my road because my Dad had the ability to gain wealth he was very creative. He had influence and the Lord said “Even though the enemy diverted that that doesn’t mean that you can’t enter into the redemptive quality of your bloodline. And you know Sid we’re always talking about the curses in our bloodline which I wrote a book on but we want to understand the redemptive plan. But what happened to me was faith exploded in me it was as if I went into a worship convention so faith. I can’t tell you what this love did I think if you’re listening you can hear the excitement as if it was today. Faith so exploded in my body I said “Lord, what do I do with this, I see the blessings you have for my father, I see the blessings you have for me, I see the blessings you have for my generations in the days ahead.” I said “Lord what do I do with this faith?” And the Lord said “I want you to open your mouth and start giving it away.” And so it was forever changing, I can just say to you God has times to meet with you that will change you forever in your life.
Sid: And of course the whole purpose of this book “Worship Warrior” that we’re making available and this is something that everyone listening to me including myself wants to know and you say…. and this is what you’re quoting God and God is saying “If You’ll worship Me I’ll visit you; I can tell you how to get untangled from the snares in your path and how to move forward; I can even reveal to you things to come that are pertinent to your life and world.” Are you telling me that one of the major advantages in worshiping God is to get direction?
Chuck: Sid, I’ll tell you this when we come into communion with God one of the functions of our spirit-man many people never talk about our spirit; and this book is an interesting book because it’s a unique worship book. I was asked to write this book after our tragedy that we experienced in our nation of 9/11where the twin, the Towers in New York City actually you know the attack that came upon our nation. And I believe it was an attack on God’s covenant people and it was a warning of things ahead.
Sid: Now why do you say that it was an attack on the Jewish people?
Chuck: It was just an attack yes, on God’s covenant people, God’s covenant plan in the earth. And of course right now as no matter where the United States is we’re still in alignment as a covenant nation. We have our struggles and we can go either way at this time but right now we’re still aligned with God’s covenant plan in Israel. And I believe what we entered into at that time was a covenant war like we had never known. And this book helps us; I was asked to write this book there was a stretching time for me because I made the statement “If we’re going to win the wars ahead in our lives or in our nation we’re going to have to learn to worship.” Because when you worship you come into a place of communion where God reveals Himself to you; not only reveals Himself He shows you what you’re supposed to be doing in the earth realm in the time frame that He’s placed you. And so this book…
Sid: I can’t think of anything worse than to live this life and be born again, go to heaven and find out that you missed the purpose of your life.
Chuck: It’s a scary thing see that’s the beauty of understanding Israel biblically it will not miss its purpose. It might stray this way, it might go into captivity for 40 years, it might go into captivity for 400 years, it might go into captivity for 70 but it will not miss its purpose. See that’s the beauty of being in covenant relationship with God. And if you’re listening out there today and you’re not in covenant relationship with God you can do that by simply right now just saying “Lord I want to give my life to You, come into my life, invade me with Your Spirit, awaken my spirit to be awaken to You, live inside of me, let me be a conduit, let me an ambassador for You.” And so here what happened with this was God through worship can reveal to you the plan that He has for you. He can attach, He can cause you to worship and gain wisdom in a way that wisdom that the enemy has no access to so you can defeat the enemy in your life.
Sid: I have to ask you this question, you wrote a whole book on this subject but I’m asking you “How do you worship personally?”
Chuck: Well, first of all I’m devoted to the Lord. And I think the number one thing in my life that has been a key is “Remember when He told Joshua, “Joshua if you’ll meditate upon Me day and night I will and mediate upon My covenant plan what I’ll do is I will ensure your success.” See my Dad had the anointing for success but he missed the concept of Sabbath rest and being devoted to the Lord. He missed the concept of communion, He also instead of devoting himself to the Lord he got tangled up with mammon and the world. And it was as if the Lord was saying “Wait a minute now I can put you in the world but just because you’re in the world I don’t want you to be of it and if you’ll worship me and mediate upon me you’ll never stray from my covenant plan.” So I always begin the day through meditation and throughout the day I mediate on what God is showing me or telling me. I mediate upon His covenant plan not only for myself but for the nation of Israel. I mediate on the plan that He has if He’s asking me to pray for our nation and I try to align the thing or the person that God’s having me pray for back to His ultimate covenant plan that He has in the word of God. I keep using the word covenant but see its God’s agreement with us. And once we understand it all life will revolve around covenant.
Sid: Now when I think of worship I think of playing worship CD, raising my hands to God and just soaring in the Spirit.
Chuck: Well, it’s a portion of worship where your spirit ascends into that position that you’ve been given because see most of us forget we’re called to live in the heavenlies and walk in the earth.
Sid: Now most people don’t know what you’re talking about.
Chuck: I know that but once you’ve allowed the Spirit of God to come into your life and you’ve invited the Lord Jesus Christ into your life well the Lord is available to us but He’s at the right hand of the Father in the heavenlies.
Sid: You know what I love and we don’t have time to get into it in today’s broadcast but you talk about the Hebrew word for ascending and about Jacob’s ladder and how the angels ascended up and down from heaven on the ladder and we can do that ascending.
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. We had the high privilege, before the book “The Harbinger” even came out, of interviewing, we were the first ones in the country. We had the CD series of “The Harbinger” by Rabbi Jonathan Cahn, which has gone on to be a New York Times bestseller, over two million of these books have been distributed. But Jonathan called me the other day and he said, “Sid, God has given me a revelation. I call it the Mystery of the Shmitah and it’s so big that it affects everything we as a people are personally doing and will affect the rise and fall of the United States of America. You know, the bestselling book, “The Harbinger,” which heeds a warning of judgments, they’re reappearing again. There’s nine of them. But one of the ones that is reappearing is the understanding and the revelation of a biblical term called the Shmitah. Now Rabbi Jonathan, what is the Shmitah?
JONATHAN: The Shmitah is an ancient mystery. It goes back over 3000 years to Moses, Mount Sinai. Yet is affecting everything from 9-11 to the rise and fall of the economy, to the crashing of the stock market, to the rise and fall of nations, everything from World War I, World War II, what is happening right now and what will happen. It is the most precise mind-boggling, biblical mystery and it’s coming true now.
SID: Now when you talked about it in your book “The Harbinger,” did have any idea that this would so affect us today in our everyday life, I mean, and how big it is?
JONATHAN: I knew it was happening, I mean, at least in a certain period, but I had no idea that it didn’t just happen then. It’s been affecting us, every single one who’s watching right now, it’s affecting every life since the day we were born and the future. I had no idea until very recently how big it was. It just, it’s really mind-boggling.
SID: Okay. Let’s just start with basics.
SID: What does the Shmitah mean? What does the word mean?
JONATHAN: The Shmitah means the release but, or it could also mean, literally, it could also mean the fall or the collapse, in Hebrew. It could also mean the shaking. And what it is, is this. In Mount Sinai, God gave this law to Israel. Every seventh year you would have a Sabbath year, a year of rest. That rest was called the Shmitah. There was no sowing, no reaping of the land. And on the last day of the Shmitah, the day is called Elul 29 on the biblical Hebrew calendar. On that last day, something unique happens. All credit is wiped away, all debt is wiped away. The financial accounts of the nation are wiped clean. Now this was to be a blessing. But when Israel turned against God, the Shmitah comes back as a sign of judgment on a nation that is driving God out of its life. So this is where it affects us particularly today. So the thing is that the Shmitah affects, as you can see, the economy right away. Today it would be a recession or a depression, I mean. And the Wall Street literally is the collapse of our financial realm. So what we’re going to see—
SID: So we’re going to have a collapse that’s not a blessing.
SID: We’re going to have the judgment type of collapse.
JONATHAN: We have already seen it happen and it’s actually getting more specific. The last two Shmitahs have been so exact, so precise since 9-11, and we’re coming up to another one as well. So what we’re going to see, and this is what blew me away, is it has been affecting everything in our lives from really, there’s no end to it. It’s amazing and it’s precise down to the days, the hours, even the seconds.
SID: Okay. Give us some background. Explain every seven years.
JONATHAN: Yeah. Yeah. Every seventh year, so you have this rest and here’s the keys to know, because we’re going to see what’s happening right now. The keys are, number one, you have a seven-year cycle. So the seven-year cycle, everything stops and then you have this financial wipeout.
SID: Okay. According to the Bible, every seventh year…
SID: We have just a blessing from God or if we haven’t done what God has asked, it becomes a judgment.
JONATHAN: It became a judgment. Actually, 586 B.C., wiped out Jerusalem. They were in battle for 70 years and the Bible says it was because it was time according to how many Shmitahs they broke. So it becomes an amazing thing. It not only wipes away accounts, it can wipe away cities and nations.
SID: You know, if someone is a non-believer in the Bible, as being from God, just looking at these patterns that are affecting us today, that have affected historically, nations being rising and falling, economies rising and falling, I mean, it’s just, how could anyone not be a believer in the Bible?
JONATHAN: Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. And here, Sid, if you look, here’s an example. If you look at the last 40 years of our financial history, you look for, there’s five great turning points or long-term collapses combined from the recessions. When did they take place? I’ll give you an example. 1973, first one. Second one, 1980. Third, 1987. Fourth, 2000, and fifth, 2007, great recession. What do you notice about all them? Every one of them is separated by a seven-year period. I mean, ’73 to ’80, seven years. ’80 to ’87, seven years. 2000, seven years. Are any of them linked specifically to the year of the Shmitah? 1973, year of the Shmitah. 1980, Shmitah. ’87, Shmitah. 2000, Shmitah. 2007, the Shmitah. Every single, a hundred percent of them happened according to the appointed time in the Bible. Some of these things went down to the second. Sid, if you go, listen, take it larger. Go to the greatest crashes in history and you’ll find, do any of them take place linked to the year of the Shmitah? The majority of them do. I’m going to give you an example. This is the third greatest crash in history. 1937 to ’38, when did the Shmitah happen? 1937 to ’38, same year. In fact, when the Shmitah begins, the next day Wall Street collapses. Here’s another one. The great recession, when does that happen? It is 2007 and ’08. When does the Shmitah happen? 2007 to ’08, and on the exact day of the Shmitah appointed to wipe away the financial accounts, Elul 29, the whole stock market collapses. The Great Depression is even linked to this. When you have this peak day of the Depression, of the Shmitah, right after that comes the greatest month collapse in American history. It is mind-boggling.
SID: You know, Jonathan, I used to be a stockbroker on Wall Street. If I had only understood these biblical principles, if I was a mutual fund manager I could be to the top mutual fund in the world. I don’t understand. Maybe that’s why there’s going to be a great wealth transfer. The wealth of the sinner is stored up for the righteous. But we have to understand these biblical principles. When we come back, I’d like to find out the future of America based on the Shmitah. How about you?
Sid: I’ve got on the telephone Gary Whetstone; he is Pastor of Victory Christian Fellowship. He is also head of the Gary Whetstone Worldwide Ministry which has started 207 Bible schools throughout the entire world. He’s authored a number of courses, one that’s got into my hands I believe supernaturally to change your life. It’s on marriage, it’s a 6 cassette series on marriage. I personally have heard a lot of teaching that is in this but there is teaching in here that I have never heard expressed in such a way I believe with such an anointing that if you know someone that is about ready to get married oh the greatest wedding present in the world you could give them is this series. If you know someone whose marriage is in trouble and I have to believe that with the stresses and pressures of the last days and the Sodom and Gomorrah environment of this world most marriages Christian or not are going through challenges. If you have a bad marriage, I believe that it will make a good marriage. If you have a good marriage, it’ll make it a better marriage. Well Gary we left people hanging on the edge of the seat yesterday, here you are in a mental institution there’s no hope but an electronic lobotomy which will end up making you a vegetable. You get born again 2 days before, you’re in your right mind you realize what’s going on; you go to the psychiatrist and you tell him you found God and he thinks that those are the buzz words to say that you’re really sick. There’s one day left, you have one day to live literally before you become a walking vegetable where they suck out part of your brain and you’re walking back to your padded cell there’s a guard on either side. For some reason, they didn’t put the restraints on you. Why didn’t they?
Gary: Well Sid that was very usual because I always was in feet and arm restraints when I was out in any type of traveling area in the hospital. But for some reason it must have just been God. You know the scripture says that “God will never allow you to be tempted beyond that which you are able to endure, but with the test He will always provide a way of escape.” Literally as I was in that corridor and about to be led back into my isolation area I heard a voice. You got to realize Sid voices are not brand new to me in the mental deranged state I was in I was hearing voices a lot. This voice was very different. I’ll never forget it I was standing there and I got one guard that’s ready to receive he’s looking through the window the other one that just let me out of the area is looking through the window and I here this voice and it says “Run!” Now like any good mental patient you’re thinking “Okay run, run where?” Well, I stop dead in the middle of this hallway and I thought “Okay, run where?” Just like I talked to a voice is what I did. And the next thing I know I heard this voice again say “Run!” And I mean to tell you something erupted on the inside of me and I started looking around. Well, as it turns out this corridor is an outside corridor that goes to an outside area which always had the 2 dead bolts and like a crash bar like a chain around it and padlock. It’s never as far as I know been open for years but that day that door all of the dead bolts were open and the chain and the padlock were unlocked. And I looked and that door was open, something happened inside of me, I mean to tell you I started running across that mental hospital ground. It was in November and this was back in 1971 and it was snowing outside here in the east coast at Delaware. I had the Property State Hospital, Property State Hospital pants, socks, obviously you’re not allowed to have a belt or shoelaces because their afraid you’re going to hang yourself and I am booking across this mental hospital ground in New Castle, Delaware. Actually just about 5 minutes from the church that I Pastor and I realized something. And of course as a good mental patient you kind of think slower than normal. I realize I was getting cold and I remembered when the police brought me in that there was an area denoted for the more trusted mental patients they call it the commissary. I’d never been there because I was never permitted to be in a public population and I ran into that place. I was feeling cold, my feet were soaking wet with my socks on and snow covered area. And as I entered in here you know that movie “One Flew over the Cuckoo’s Nest” you know I kind of joke about it but in reality…
Sid: You can really relate to that though.
Gary: Oh yeah it was a real shocking experience, I came into that area and I scream out “I’m on a run” and you could just picture this 50 – 60 mental patients there and they start beating on the desk “Run, run, run!” (Laughing)
Gary: And this seem incredible one guy throws me these huge shoes, they got to be size 13 or 14. Another guy threw this big old blue pea coat the guy must have gone 450 lbs and I put these clothes on and I looked like Dopey you know one of those dwarf… you know. Big old shoes and of course he couldn’t have shoe laces either so they flopped over and it was terrible. So I toke back off on the other side of the commissary, had long red hair and long red beard and remember my brother’s the President of a pagan motorcycle club so I was kind of involved in a bunch of stuff before I kind of mentally checked out. And I realized and this might sound funny but really somebody might think I’m escaping from the mental hospital. You know you know you got to think about and say “Well of course they would.” Well, I shoved my hair into my coat and my beard and they had a guard at the gate area where you’d be allowed out. And I thought “This guy’s going to think I’m on a run.” You know what happened?
Gary: I walked by him and he never saw me.
Sid: Well, you weren’t very obvious with the oversized boots.
Gary: That probably looked like a blur to him.
Sid: That had to be… he had to be blinded.
Gary: Oh yeah.
Sid: Supernaturally he had to be blinded.
Gary: And you know not only that but the 2 guards that were standing there watching me did not see me escape and did not even report that I was missing until Friday when they came to get me for the electronic process they were going to do. No record, no sight, nobody saw me escape it was a bonafide miracle.
Sid: So what happened?
Gary: Well, I got out to the highway and for some reason I ran into the highway. And this is another shock. I’m in church now it’s 15 years later, 18 years later and I’m pasturing the church. Somehow this lady inside of our church says “Oh, my God” in the middle of the service she says “You’re the one.” So afterwards I said “What do you mean I’m the one.” She said “During 1971 she ran through a man with a big blue pea coat with red hair and piercing blue eyes.” And I remember when I came out of the mental hospital I literally ran right into the road and I saw a car and I don’t know it was all kind of a mental blur but it was like the car ran through me. The next thing I knew I was on the sidewalk and that car was pulled off to the side of the road.
Sid: And what does this woman say occurred?
Gary: Who she is she’s one of the Clinical Physiologists in the hospital with a PHD of Physiology. She was also a born again Spirit filled Christian. She sat on the front…
Sid: For those that has just tuned in we found out that 2 days before this electronic lobotomy Gary had become born again, but go ahead.
Gary: Yeah, I was incredible. Now this lady is on the side of the road and she is ready to call the police and report me as being an escapee of the mental hospital. All of the sudden she was just shook because she thought she ran over me which she didn’t somehow God delivered me from being killed there. And she said that God spoke to her “Do not report him that this man belonged to God and God had a call on his life.” She never reported me.
Sid: Gary we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow broadcast but there is an urgency there are people listening to us that their whole destiny is going to be changed. The ministry God has entrusted to you is unbelievable with what you’re telling me where you’re coming from. But there are people whose marriages that are about ready to bust up which will cause them to move into the wilderness for who knows when and we’re in the last of the last days and God has a destiny and it’s His desire that these marriages be strong. In your opinion is there any such thing as a hopeless marriage?
Gary: You know Sid just because of my own experience having been divorced with my wife Faye in 1975, and remarried her again in 1976; seeing the thousands of families that have been trained in the course called “What God has Joined Together” I can honestly say “Just like when God had Hosea constantly reconcile with Gomer, the prostitute, God has a covenant in marriage. That there is absolutely no marriage that God cannot restore with the right understanding, with the right revelation of God’s word, with the yielding to the Spirit of God every marriage can and will be restored.
Sid: I have to ask you this Gary I’ve listened to other marriage series I’m more excited about this than anything I’ve ever heard on marriage. Where did you get this teaching from? I know you got it from the Bible because it’s all biblically based, but where did you get this teaching from?
Gary: When I remarried my wife in 1976, I spent 7 years from basically ’75 up to ’82 studying for hours every day the word of God on how to be a man, how to be a father, how to be a husband. How God orchestrates and organized marriage, what did it mean? I went through all of the Greek and the Hebrew understanding an intense study, only to find out that the truth of God’s word that are discovered and unveiled in this series has the incredible authority to deliver a man and or a woman who is operating dysfunctionally in a marriage. In that time of 7 years of study is what anchored me and my wife into our successful marriage we have today. We’re married 25 years with what I call 9 months off with bad behavior.
Sid: And I have to believe that this is not as true in your church but most of the marriages today in Christian families half of them end in divorce, and the other half because of the word you said was a catch all word was dysfunctional because we had dysfunctional marriage it’s not a cope out but we’re stuck with all of these curses. This course is going to turn your life around…
SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. There is such a presence of God in this studio. You see, we’re in the last of the last days. Why do I say this? There was an emphasis on the Holy Spirit, the charismatic movement, and rightfully so. There was an emphasis on the power of the Word of God and the name of Jesus, and rightfully so. But the final emphasis will on Father God, Abba. Malachi puts it this way: “Before Elijah comes to announce the return of the Messiah, the hearts of the children will be knit with the hearts of the fathers. And the hearts of the fathers will be knit with the hearts of the children or there will be a curse.” But guess what, the reverse is also true. If the hearts of the children are knit with Father God, it will be great, great blessing. Hank Kunneman has never shared what he’s going to share, completely publically. Why now, Hank?
HANK: The Lord told me to. He said the reason why you grew up in the family that you did and you went through some of the things that you did is so that you can help others. People are hurting today. You know, one of the first things that Jesus came to proclaim was healing to the broken-hearted. People today are wanting to know, God, are you angry at me? Are you ashamed of me? Lord, do you really want to be involved in my life? And I feel that God is saying, I want to be involved. Hank, share your story. Tell people how much the Father loves them and demonstrate—
SID: Now it’s kind of painful, I’m sure, for you to share this. At age one, your birth father walks out on the family. Age two, your mother remarries, blended family, non-Christian family. How did you feel
HANK: Well I felt a sense of like, first of all, I didn’t really want anybody to know my business, so to speak, and I thought, really what difference would it make? And I felt like the things that I went through were just kind of my own story. But I realize that sometimes, especially as ministers, the whole reason we’re a minister is to minister to others to give people things that they can relate to in their life. And growing up and having a biological father, of course he’s not alive today, disappear from you, never knowing what he looked like, what he sounded like, what his futures were like, and having to hold on to that was very difficult. I came to know my stepdad who adopted me at two years of age and he would raise me, growing up really in a non-Christian home, never really hearing the words, “I love you.” It was difficult. It was tough. And I just felt like how can anybody relate to this. And I didn’t realize at the time that, Sid, there is a generation of people that some have grown up without a dad. Some have grown up and had to see their dad walk away. Some are feeling the effects of abuse and rejection. Some have never been told that God loves them and we have to get this story out because I believe it’s the final revelation before Jesus comes. And if I can take my life to help somebody else, I’m willing to do it.
SID: Okay. Christmas time, did you see a difference between your adoptive grandparents to their natural grandchildren and you?
HANK: Growing up, because it was a blended family, again I was adopted by my stepdad. He was a very disciplinary military guy. He didn’t really grow up with the greatest example of what love is and really how to be a dad that expresses that kind of love. And so at Christmas, the adoptive grandparents would treat me, and they would say out of their mouths something very hurtful. They would say to me, “You’re not real blood. You’re not one of us.” They would talk about how they had a lot of money and that I wouldn’t get any of the inheritance like the other grandkids would. They would say, “We’ll you’re not going to get a present or you’re going to get a smaller present because you’re not real flesh and blood.” As a young kid 10, 11, 12 years old, I didn’t understand it. I didn’t understand why I couldn’t be like them, why I was being treated different, and it took a lot of time to feel, not feel rejected.
SID: You told me that you would go to your bedroom by yourself and weep.
HANK: I would cry. Yeah. I would cry because I didn’t feel that sense of love. I felt them push me away and yet I loved my stepdad no different. But to them, it didn’t matter. I didn’t carry their same blood. And so they made life difficult, and unfortunately it brought a lot of strife into the family, trying to divide the family over, you know, real blood, non-real blood.
SID: And you know how wonderful God is? With this kid that his heart is crying, I need a daddy, at age five, God speaks to him. What did He say?
HANK: It was interesting. I was five years old. I was on the island of Guam because my dad was in the military. And I was leaning up against my parents’ car and I was looking up at the sky, and all of a sudden I heard a voice. I’ll never forget it. And it was almost like off to my right side, and it began to speak to me. And it talked to me, obviously in a childlike way where I would understand. It was Abba revealing himself to me, telling me His hand was upon my life, telling me He had good things for my life. He told me that He was going to reveal who He was over a period of time in my life, and that I was to do good things, and always try to do what was right. That dramatically changed me because I started feeling like there was someone or something out there that really was interested in who I was.
SID: You know, the presence of God is getting so strong in this studio right now. Someone’s neck and spine has just been healed. And I’m going to tell you something else. When you capture this revelation, no one is going to take it away from you. We’ll be right back.
Sid: My guest Hank Kunneman is red hot for the Messiah because God has given him a revelation that transformed his life and is going to transform the lives of a generation. Why? Because we’ve had the revelation of God the Holy Spirit and we needed it and rightfully so. We have had the revelation of the power and the name of Jesus the Son of God rightfully! But we haven’t had the revelation of God the Father, it’s the final revelation before the Messiah returns. On yesterday’s broadcast Hank Kunneman said “I’m going to share things for the first, I’ve never shared to this degree publically before and I’m doing it because God told me that there are people that need this.” And I’m going to tell you something on yesterday’s broadcast we found out he had a stepfather and he had a blended family, and he felt as if he really wasn’t a Kunneman because it wasn’t his natural father but even more so as a child notices differences his father’s parents favored the children that came from his father’s first marriage and it hurt. Christmas time Hank would see a difference but in this maze I mean we humans are so complex and all of the emotions going on as a child and Hank sees these things going on; even in the midst of all of this at age 5 God reaches down and speaks to him. And of course he was raised in a non-Christian family and what did you make of this at age 5 when God spoke to you?
Hank: You know what it did for me is it gave me awareness and a hunger. It was like a seed that went into me that I began to search to know what that was and who it was. And so things would happen, in fact one of the things that was said to me growing up I was a little guy walking into the grocery store with my would be my blood grandma. You know people would stop me some elderly woman who were shopping and say to my grandma “You know that young man God’s hand is upon his life.” And that would scare me not like I didn’t think of it as the call, I thought that His hand was upon me and He would bring me back to those words that “I was to do good and treat others nice.” And even when I was being mistreated you know by even some of my brothers and sisters at times and my grandparents you know the adoptive grandparents. I stayed in an attitude the best that I knew how to treat people with honor and treat them with respect. But I’ll tell you what I’ve learned though, God is more than just a creator, He’s more than just a biological parent. You know He’s not like some of us like my biological father who disappeared; you know some that are listening today they had fathers who disappeared they don’t even know where they are at. Or maybe they do know where they are at but they were left without a father.
Sid: We have a generation that is raised with single parents.
Hank: That’s right but you could tell by the first question recorded in scripture that God wanted to be more than a creator. This is why I believe it’s a Father Revelation.
Sid: What was the first question in the garden?
Hank: “Adam where are you?” If He didn’t want to be more than a creator He would never have asked a question “Where are you?” and then go and find his son who had blown it, who blew it. And that’s the thing sometimes we think “Golly you know our lives we’ve blown it, we’ve made mistakes, you know we’ve been without a father; maybe we didn’t grow up in the most ideal family.” God is the one as Abba, He’s always pursuing, we see this with the story of the prodigal son. It was the father that ran and kissed the young man falling upon his neck and kissing his neck after the prodigal son blew it. And so I see this with Abba’s love and I see where this is very important revelation for today; let me give you an example you know. As I began to grow up in my home and things were heated. I used to sit back and think “How come my mom and dad you know they’re allowing a lot of this to go on you know this devise, this divisiveness between the grandparents and you’re not a real blood relative or you know you’re half or you’re not at all. And that’s not to fault them. But I couldn’t understand why this was taking place. And so even my stepdad he was a tremendous man, a very hard working man. He would come underneath the protector and the provider type you know put a roof over your head. Put food in front of you but there wasn’t a lot of affirmation. In fact Sid I was never told growing up, I never heard the words and I’m not saying this to be divisive, I’m not saying this to be harsh because the story there’s a good ending but I’d love to share with this listeners, but here’s the point, I never heard the words, “I love you.” And that’s…
Sid: How important is that for a child to have that affirmation, to hear “I love you for a parent?”
Hank: Well the revelation of love you know we think about lst Corinthians chapter 13 and we always quote it you know that that’s how we’re supposed to be as Christians. “Love is patient, love is kind, love doesn’t boil over in jealousy, you know love doesn’t take in account a suffered wrong.” But if you think about what the scriptures says in the book of 1 John it says “That God is love.” So the very essence and definition of love is who God is and so when you read that in Corinthians it isn’t just how we should be as loving Christians and loving others and but it’s God’s revelation of who He is.
Sid: You know what I believe that if you would read those characteristics if God is love what are the characteristics of not necessarily our love but a God kind of love. I believe that as you read this Hank say it almost prophetically and it’s going to start healing people that are listening.
Hank: God is patient, God is kind, God is not prideful, arrogant, or conceited. God’s love does not boil over in envy. God’s love is He doesn’t take into account of a suffered wrong. And so the reason why I say this is because when you don’t have that in your life from a parent and all your getting is the opposite you’re getting harsh. Like I was never abusive but he never showed very often the affirming side of love. Because he didn’t know how he came from a generation and from an upbringing that really didn’t emulate…
Sid: You know I can really relate to what you’re saying because my father came from that same type of generation. Now I know in retrospect he loved me, however he never said it. He never affirmed me to my memory so I can really relate to what your background was Hank.
Hank: But see that’s the whole reason Jesus came into the earth. He said “If you’ve seen Me you’ve seen the Father.” It’s the very reason why the Pharisees got angry, I mean John 8 they were accusing him of being illegitimate because of the revelation they had was God the Father has a corporate Father but not as a personal Daddy. And it also upset the Pharisees that Jesus was using the word Abba. He was talking in their mind as a small child that he wasn’t using an older term for Father. And he was also personalizing, this is my Dad, this is my father. And I talk about that in my writing. Now here’s what’s interesting when Jesus rose from the dead this is why affirmation is so important. There may be some out there listening today saying “You know what I can relate to Hank when I grew up I never heard the words, ‘I love you’ from my father.” And now the Father is speaking out of heaven and I believe He is speaking to this generation and He is saying “I love you, I’m not mad at you, I affirm you; yeah you might have made mistakes and yes maybe you are making mistakes, but I as your Father am looking down and I wanted to do what Jesus did with the children.” Because if you’ve seen Jesus you’ve seen the Father and that is where he began to welcome the children into his lap, Jesus did. And I believe that the Father is calling people today to Himself, He’s reaching His arms out and saying “Come here.” Maybe you had a father that disappeared, maybe you don’t even know who your biological father is, maybe you’re adopted, maybe you have a stepparent. Maybe you had those that say “You’re not real flesh and blood.” The beauty of it Sid is God is pulling His kids and those that He had created close to Him and He’s wanting to pour out His love an affirmation. You know I had teachers growing up they told me “Don’t publically speak you’re not good at it, don’t write you’re not good at it.” But today Abba has graced my life to where I’m now able to stand on platforms around the world preaching for Him, and I’m able to write books. Just because somebody said we can’t do something Abba will affirm us and I think that’s the message I want people to hear today is “Yeah we might go through some things and yes we have hurts and pains but if we’ll turn over to the Lord and we’ll call out to Abba and we’ll say Abba I need You He’ll affirm you.”
Sid: What does the word Abba mean exactly?
Hank: It means Daddy, or Poppa. It’s a more intimate description. Well if somebody says “What happens if I call God Abba?” Here’s what I said, whatever you… Moses wanted to see the glory of God. He said “Lord show me You glory.” And then God said “Alright, here’s how you’re going to get my presence.” See Abba wants to hug people, how does He hug people? He brings His presence, it’s like a magnet when you call God that’s why when He appeared to Moses He said “I will proclaim the name of the Lord, I am merciful and gracious full of loving kindness and truth and goodness.” So God was telling Moses “If you want to draw Me to you here’s what you say,” it’s the same way today. If we want the affirmation maybe we didn’t get from our parents we need to say “Abba.” And I…
Sid: And by the way your literally telling us to say that, you are literally because in your book you explain this. You are literally saying every time we say out loud and with our heart and with our words, “Abba.” He draws closer to us oops we’re out of time again.
Sid: My guest is Bill Johnson Senior Leader of Bethel Church in Redding, California. And I’ve had the privilege of sitting under Bill’s ministry, and I have to say I don’t know of anyone else I’ve seen that have had so many manifestations of miracles. So I wanted to find out how this happened. Well I can’t even call them normal because he’s a 5th generation Pastor and it runs in his genes, in his DNA. But not what he experienced one night the electricity of God… Bill Johnson, did it hurt this electricity of God? I know that if lightning hits you that would hurt?
Bill: It wasn’t painful but also was not pleasant it was very very uncomfortable. It was gratifying in the sense that I lived so aware of God being in the room, but physically it was not a pleasant experience of what I felt physically.
Sid: So this happened 3 nights in a row from about 3:00 to 6:00 AM in the morning. The third night, if I understand you right, that same presence of God went on your wife.
Sid: Now did she deal with it better than you?
Bill: I don’t know the process she went through on the inside I think it was more of just an unusual encounter with the Lord. I don’t know that He had to hunt for the same thing in her heart that He had to find in mine.
Sid: And repeat for those that didn’t listen yesterday what did He basically say to you?
Bill: The Lord was looking for me to give up my right for dignity. That He wanted the right to be able to use me in any way that He wanted even if I looked foolish, even if I didn’t come across as being dignified or respectful and giving up the right for that is sometimes important for the ministering of the gospel.
Sid: Well you did finally say “You counted the cost” as it says in the Bible and you said “Yes to the Lord.” Tell me the first time you lost your dignity.
Bill: (Laughing) Well it was a season of time where the visitation. It just came in ways that we didn’t expect we didn’t know what to do. It was the Lord dealing with me because I have said yes in the secret place He trusted me to lead some of those meetings in a public place. So the Holy Spirit would come in greater power, we didn’t always know what was happening we would examine the fruit afterwards, we’d find out that a marriage was healed, we’d find that somebody’s body was healed or some person came to Christ or something. But it didn’t always look logical at the time. And so it was something that happened to me publically but it also happened to most everyone else in the room. So it was a process and it was a season of many years where I was required because of that “Yes” that I made to the Lord I was required to live with a certain amount of risk to see what the Lord wanted to do in a given setting.
Sid: Did you ever get used to that, that risk because that doesn’t sound like the type of person you were?
Bill: No, no I’ve never I’ve had to push into it in a sense for the miracles and the healings that we see happen. It certainly easier today than it was 15, 16 and 17 years ago but I still have to intensely push into it realizing that I don’t know what’s about to happen. I’m pushing into the unknown only knowing that God is good and that He will do something significant. And so I don’t get paranoid but I really want to make sure that I hear correctly because I know that often times breakthrough is connected to our deliberate and accurate obedience.
Sid: Okay, you’ve been at this how many years has it been since this power encounter?
Bill: Since that encounter would be 1995 so it’s 18 years.
Sid: Okay, what… tell me some secrets that you have learned in that period of time that you wished that you had known at day one, if you had down it you might have not said yes. (Laughing)
Bill: (Chuckle) The secrets have to deal in 2 areas. One is the nature of God and the other is how He uses us. So the first thing would be the thing that I wished I had known you know 20-30 years ago 40 years ago when I first started. I wish I would have known how good God was. Just discovering the absolute perfect goodness of God has been the greatest delight of my life. That goodness doesn’t translate into tolerating sin, people misunderstand that and that’s not accurate but He is so incredibly kind. And I wish I would have known that because all of the healing, all of the prophetic, all of the things that we have experienced really flow out of that goodness. His heart of great, great love and compassion and affection for people; I wished I would have known that better at the beginning.
Sid: Most people judge God by their earthly father.
Bill: That’s true.
Sid: And that’s a wrong thing to do because how can you judge a human against pure love.
Bill: Yeah, you’re right and that’s messed a lot of people up because they didn’t have a good home. I had a great home and I still struggle with it and so I can only imagine what people deal with that were raised in a abusive or less than kind household. So it’s just one thing that I wish I had known earlier than I did. The second is I had this notion that you had to be a special person for God to use you. You know I grew up and my family had sat under Wigglesworth Ministry and uncle was a soloist for Aimee Semple McPherson and so we had a lot of good…
Sid: You know you are provoke… you know I’m Jewish and the Bible says “The Gentile believers to provoke the Jews to jealousy, but you’re sure doing it now but go ahead. (Laughing)
Bill: Yeah well, I grew up hearing those stories and it put an appetite in me which is really good but I caught a message that nobody was telling me but somehow I caught it that you had to be a special person. You know Wigglesworth was unusually gifted in faith, Kathryn Kuhlman had an unusual sense of God’s presence and I just never qualified. And so I would dismiss this urge to see the authentic gospel displayed with purity and power, but it kept coming back, kept coming back, kept coming back until I went to a John Wimber Conference and I saw them model demonstrate and teach how everyone, everyone can do this. And it changed my life and I’m forever indebted to…
Sid: Now wait a second now you told me about that power encounter where electricity came over your body 3 nights in a row for 3 hours so you were a special person. How can you say that that person listening to me can do what you can do?
Bill: Well first of all okay it started in ’87 it started before ’95 and it started when I was pasturing a small tiny little church up in the mountain. I didn’t have any kind of experience or reputation or anything, I just went to a conference where I saw John Wimber and his team the Vineyard Movement I saw them model how every person can do this and they did it in a way that they that fit my life. You know it was hard for me to ever imagine me being in a large crusade preaching to 10’s of 1000’s of people but I knew that I could talk one on one and could pray for someone. And they modeled that for me and it set me up and that’s when the miracles started it was 1987. The explosion came in ’95 but that wasn’t something I knew would happen. But I cried out for more knowing that I had tasted enough to be ruined forever. I really wanted a greater and a more significant breakthrough so that was my hearts cry you know and that’s how and when the Lord really really visited me that’s then.
Sid: You know I hear this often for lack of a better words such a desperation for more of God and I’ve heard this from many people that have had wonderful ministries. But if I’m understanding you right whether someone has that supernatural desperation or not when they understand it they can go for God desperately and end up with the same things that you and the people out at your school get.
Bill: Yeah, I believe that I do God is moved by hunger. And people that are hungry, you know people let me say this I’ve seen people that get really hungry but they end up in unbelief because their hunger is a striving, it’s not anchored in the goodness of God it’s not anchored in promises it’s just… it’s anchored in an ideal that they never reach. I see others that they are hungry but they know that God is good and they’re seeking for this wonderful Father to touch them more deeply and profoundly. What hurts people is when they try to have somebody else’s experience. I think it’s legitimate for us to pursue outcome but not experience.
Sid: You know what I would love everyone listening to us to do and that is have you come to their house invite a few of their friends and teach them the most important thing that every Christian has to learn how to host the presence of God. Here let me read to you what Heidi Baker said when she got a hold of this book. Bill Johnson’s book “Hosting the Presence” is one of the most powerful books that I have ever read. I was undone by chapter 1 and found myself weeping and crying out for more of the manifest presence of God to rest on my life. I was wrecked with a greater hunger to be fully possessed by the glory of God and filled with fresh longing for my life to be distinguished by His presence…”